Champions League 16/17: Page 18 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Champions League 16/17

General

dreamlord wrote:
Seeing PSG pass the ball from keeper to the front is absolutely beautiful to watch. The difference between us and them in dealing with pressure is staggering, and IMO stems from the fact that we have cloggers like Coquelin and Xhaka in midfield. Cazorla plays like Verrati, but we're still lacking 2 other midfielders.

Also, we need to learn to press together, not through Sanchez.

Don't forget Ramsey too. We can't execute this kind of game because our players don't have the technical level, athleticism and concentration to execute. Tactically we are not disciplined enough to play an expansive game. Our best chance of success in this competition is to play on the counter attack.

Claudius

That's the worst idea for us, General. Playing on the counter attack requires a level of defensive coordination and application that we are incapable of. It means you need to keep shape, be calm, ensure you have proper help-side defense, etc. And then it also requires you to be able to break at speed, something we have not done consistently since November.

Ray

Cazorla is the only CM we have who can handle pressure and use it to start attacks, Chambo too possibly.

flobaba

What you saw was a product of intensive coaching - tactical & technical intelligence all around. It's not just about the midfielder(S). The forward has to be technically sound enough for two things: 1. Read the spaces between the lines and drop deep at the right time. 2. Be capable of actually receiving the ball with a good first touch and holding it up long enough to lay it off if necessary. That was a well coached, well oiled team that executed the game plan to perfection. Kudos to them. Oh, and yeah, they were extremely fit, strong and physical.

We were extremely lucky when we met them in the group stages. Easily could've had a similar whupping if not for players out, and Cavani's poor finishing.

General

Claudius wrote:
That's the worst idea for us, General. Playing on the counter attack requires a level of defensive coordination and application that we are incapable of. It means you need to keep shape, be calm, ensure you have proper help-side defense, etc. And then it also requires you to be able to break at speed, something we have not done consistently since November.

All the major success we've had in this competition came from playing on the counter. Yes we lack organisation but we look a lot more stable with men behind the ball and have the speed to execute. We have to accept that there are better teams in the competition who monopolise the ball better than us and we simply have to let them have it and wait for our chance.

Segway

Andre Gomes is some flop. A terrible fit for a Barcelona midfield. Rakitic must be furious to see Gomes preferred over him.

Segway

Busquets was also exposed badly. He's great when your team are dominating but when he actually has to cover a lot of ground and do the dirty work he's a distinctly average player who spends more time moaning at the ref than making tackles.

QuincyAbeyie

They were great, but let's not pretend this is their normal level. They have the exact same points averaged per game in Ligue 1 as we do in the PL and they ended up behind us in the group. They have plenty of stupid points lost just like us.

Qwiss

Segway wrote:
Busquets was also exposed badly. He's great when your team are dominating but when he actually has to cover a lot of ground and do the dirty work he's a distinctly average player who spends more time moaning at the ref than making tackles.

He's one of the most overrated players I've ever seen.

Qwiss

Bryant wrote:
should've signed draxler....

Should've signed Rabiot when we had the chance.

Klaus

Yep. Rabiot is probably the miss in the last few years from an Arsenal perspective. Bloke could have been a new Vieira for us.

MistaT

Qwiss! wrote:
Segway wrote:
Busquets was also exposed badly. He's great when your team are dominating but when he actually has to cover a lot of ground and do the dirty work he's a distinctly average player who spends more time moaning at the ref than making tackles.

He's one of the most overrated players I've ever seen.

More of a luxury player than Ozil :doh:

Rohit

We carry players like Walcott and Coquelin at the same time who offer little to nothing in the ball to play like PSG did. You compare that with our best sides under Wenger and not one player was useless like this on the ball.

Klaus

Busquets used to be incredible to be honest. He looks to have entered a bit of decline in the last few seasons but the bloke redefined a key position in modern football. That's how good he used to be.

Klaus

Rohit wrote:
We carry players like Walcott and Coquelin at the same time who offer little to nothing in the ball to play like PSG did. You compare that with our best sides under Wenger and not one player was useless like this on the ball.

The lack of refined technique is the most curious flaw in Wenger's post-Invincibles philosophy. I remember when people used to criticise Gilberto for lacking technical ability compared to his teammates. He would easily pass for one of the most skillful players in the current Arsenal team if he still was around.

Rohit

That's what I just don't understand about Wenger. For someone who values technical ability as much as he does, and I can't think of any other top manager who talks about it as much as he does, he surely carries far too many players without the quality he values the most.

For a manager who talks about being inclined to attack more, he makes the most awkward substitutions like bringing Pascal Cygan on the left wing to protect a lead.

He more beautifully than any other manager articulates how a player like Pires was at his best on the left because of his peripheral vision and yet can't fix the best positions for some players.

He is just full of contradictions.

Rohit

I am wondering what the chances of Napoli beating Madrid are, over two legs. Barca and Madrid both going out will really open it up.

Ray

You can get away with one, as long as you use them correctly, look at Matuidi at PSG.

Bryant

Qwiss! wrote:
Bryant wrote:
should've signed draxler....

Should've signed Rabiot when we had the chance.

It's really embarrassing how we've missed out on nearly all of the French talent of this generation. Wenger seems to forgot how he won in the first place.

Coombs

Klaus wrote:
Rohit wrote:
We carry players like Walcott and Coquelin at the same time who offer little to nothing in the ball to play like PSG did. You compare that with our best sides under Wenger and not one player was useless like this on the ball.

The lack of refined technique is the most curious flaw in Wenger's post-Invincibles philosophy. I remember when people used to criticise Gilberto for lacking technical ability compared to his teammates. He would easily pass for one of the most skillful players in the current Arsenal team if he still was around.

Nah, this is a different era, technical quality overall is way, way higher.

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