UK Politics Omnishambles: Page 57 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

UK Politics Omnishambles

Mirth

SNP have said they'll also support it. DUP will abstain. Well, well - there's a pretty good chance this will pass now.

goon

So assuming this passes, along with the custom unions option and possibly a confirmatory referendum, what are May's next steps?

A lot of speculation that if the above happens, she'll put her vote up again in the hope that the above scares enough brexiteers over to backing her deal, but I don't see how she can do with without pissing off parliament by going against it's will? On the other hand, if she confirms she's going to persue this softer Brexit, half her cabinet will resign.

Mirth

I think the first step is to see what the numbers look like. No doubt some Labour MPs from Leave supporting areas will vote this down (and that's fair enough tbh). If there's finally a sizable majority for something then it'll be harder to ignore than if it just sneaks through.

I have to say, this is a good deal from an economic perspective so I'm fine with it but politically an absolute ticking timebomb.

goon

Wow.

Also all four indicative votes very ‘remainy’ in nature:

goon

So nothing won a majority yet again thanks to some tactical voting.

I’m so tired.

Mirth

Like I said, it'll depend on the numbers. Since the Customs Union vote only failed by 3 votes and since the Cabinet abstained there's a pretty good chance that it's the de facto alternative. If a referendum or election is held, it'll need to be one of the options.

Meatwad

goon

Nick Boles summed it up perfectly for me, the lack of compromise is just disgusting, voting stubbornly for their 1st choice preference only.

Mirth

31 October deadline is the most pointless extension ever - there's little chance much will get resolved by then. Should have either just pulled the cord in June or kicked into 2020 in the hope that the political alchemy will have changed. It's become more and more apparent that this is just a shameless bit of theatre for everyone involved.

By all accounts, most other EU members wanted an extension till next March so that's still arguably on the table.

Oh well, as long as the MPs get their holidays:

Qwiss

They should be stuck in a hotel with no contact to the outside world until they come up with a solution, like a sequestered jury.

Klaus

Absolutely. Leaving for a holiday at this stage is just taking the piss.

Mirth

For the record, to hold another referendum within six months is extremely unlikely - even if everyone suddenly decided to agree on having one, there's very little precedent for one to be held so quickly as the process of organising one itself is subject to its own challenges. Although historically a referendum's never been held on any matter than needed to be decided immediately so who knows? Anyone hoping for the country to go down that route won't have a final answer by the end of the year, whatever happens.

A general election could be thrown together at a moments notice though.

jones

Metropolitan police have just arrested Julian Assange literally days after Hunt said he was a free man and could leave whenever he wants. This is Hunt today:

Julian Assange is no hero and no one is above the law. He has hidden from the truth for years. Thank you Ecuador and President Lenín Moreno for your cooperation with the Foreign Office to ensure Assange faces justice.”

Watch the man disappear in solitary confinement for the rest of his life, probably tortured for his sources too for good measure. Expose the leaders of the free world and reap the rewards.

Coombs

The Pamela Anderson involvement with Assange really is bizarre.

Bold Tone

Meatwad wrote:

How have i not seen this?
Snoop Mogg 😆

Burnwinter

Mirth wrote:
A general election could be thrown together at a moments notice though.

A general election coupled with proper clarity from parties old and new about their post-election Brexit strategy would be worth having. I feel like what I've seen from Westminster as a whole over the past few months has been exceptionally undemocratic. Just holding a "People's Vote" doesn't allow the rest of the political landscape into the question.

jones

Coombs wrote:
The Pamela Anderson involvement with Assange really is bizarre.

What's bizarre about it? She's been a vocal critic of most NATO governments for a while, she also speaks more sense than most political commentators like in her terrific analysis of the yellow vest movement. Either way being honest if theres anything bizarre here it's to pick on her "involvement" in this whole situation

Coombs

Oh come off it. Good on her for having decent politics, but the celebrity aspect of it is totally bizarre. The whole Assange saga is weird as hell. I know you get fired up by it, but I think it's a much more shallow affair altogether than how it's generally portrayed. Like most things that end up on the news.

Burnwinter

My overall take on Assange's extradition … firstly, since WikiLeaks first emerged to prominence, most of the decisions Assange has made as an organiser have been destructive to his organisation's ostensible mission.

By making himself a public figure Assange risked his existing and potential sources more, and became a single point of failure and a venue for conflicts of interest. After the Sweden rape accusations, Assange chose to fight them via WikiLeaks (and an as yet unsubstantiated CIA honey trap theory) rather than as a private individual.

Assange has a long history of apparent misconduct towards women, and has made strange statements indicating an obsession with "impregnating virgins" … he has children with four different women. Years ago there was a Gawker piece detailing a truly icky correspondence he had with a woman he'd encountered who ended up not wanting to date him.

The psychological impact of living under effective house arrest for the past seven years has probably been undervalued. That's a very considerable punishment in and of itself.

His extradition to the US, and the legal precedents that are being set in relation to that, have to be loudly opposed. I also believe that Assange as an individual doesn't "deserve" more hardship, but that the accusations made against him in Sweden shouldn't be delegitimised. I think that most of his activity since Collateral Murder was released has limited the effectiveness of WikiLeaks. I also question the theory that transparent availability of information produces political change.

jones

I dont see how Assange's character or deviant sexual behaviour is relevant in any way in this situation. Hes facing solitary confinement, torture and execution in the US, not a trial in Sweden. It's been years since I read up on it but I remember well that the "case" built against him there was very questionable too with several recanted statements and some highly dodgy links to at least one of the supposed victims. I dont want to take it lightly because theres a chance the accusations are true but let's be real hes not detained now because of alleged sexual misconduct or rape.

I find it incredible that people even on the left actually engage in debates about what Assange is, whether he deserves it or not etc. This isn't about Assange as a person ffs. This is about him as the head of Wikileaks publishing a gigantic amount of information detailing the crimes of the one remaining superpower on earth, about their destabilising whole countries, about massacres against civilians, usage of dirty ammunition and God knows how many other war crimes.

Even if you dont like him surely you need to know what a valuable service to the whole fucking planet he did by exposing that kind of information. And even if you dont feel gratitude towards him at least you should know what kind of precedent this means that not only domestic official turned whistleblowers like Manning, Snowden, Thomas Drake or John Crane can and will be persecuted but also foreign journalists. But yeah Coombs is probably right this is really shallow stuff and Pence himself visiting Moreno in one of his first state visits surely has nothing to do with anything.

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