UK Politics Omnishambles: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

UK Politics Omnishambles

Daz

I'll be handing out for them on Saturday Burnsy so I'll see if I can bump those numbers up a bit.

Pepe LeFrits

My mate just posted a blog on the Corbyn situation, which I found interesting:

http://www.robfahey.co.uk/blog/no-confidence-not-just-corbyn/

Consider; whatever Conservative party emerges from its current mess will almost certainly be more right-wing and illiberal than its current incarnation. It’s unlikely to win many extra seats in the election – it’s more likely to slide backwards, and Labour may even win some seats from them. However, emboldened by Brexit, the even more aggressively far-right UKIP could win several seats, granting the far-right party more MPs from traditional Labour heartlands. The Tories, losing their slim majority, would face another coalition – either with their old partners, the Liberal Democrats, whom Cameron used effectively to hold back the right-wingers in his own party during the last coalition government, or with UKIP. With the right wing in control of the Conservative party, unleashed by Brexit and Cameron’s resignation, they’re unlikely to countenance another coalition with the Lib Dems; a nightmare coalition of a right-leaning Conservative party, the borderline fascist UKIP and the Ulster Unionists seems perhaps the most likely outcome of a Labour stumble in the 2016 General Election.

...

Corbyn was the right leader for Labour when the task was to drag the party, and then the British people, back to firm centre-left ground – when stubbornness and a willingness to shrug off unpopularity were the key requirements for the role. Corbyn hasn’t changed, but the job has. The job now is to mitigate the damage of Brexit and to avoid plunging Britain into an even deeper crisis at the likely impending election. Corbyn isn’t the man for that job. While the disloyalty and scheming of those who have plotted against him from the outset should never be forgotten (we can hope that several of them will be de-selected by their local parties in retribution), many of the 172 who voted against him this week have done so out of genuine fear not just for their own jobs but for the future of the UK. Corbyn is the right man, but this is the wrong time.

Burnwinter

Not running at this one Daz? You've been a Greens candidate before haven't you, or was that at Victorian state level?

Daz

Nah not this time mate (I've run twice before - once in NSW election and once in Federal). Too busy with work etc to do a proper job of it. We've got a really good young candidate in my electorate though so I'm happy to hand over the baton. I reckon she'll do really well (though no chance of winning as I live in one of the most historically conservative seats in Aus).

innervisionscm

Pepe LeFrits wrote:
My mate just posted a blog on the Corbyn situation, which I found interesting:

...

I see this logic in the US all the time as well, where "electable" means watering down your message, abandoning your enthusiastic base, and moving to some mythical center where there's all these votes to be won. There doesn't seem to be much evidence to support it. It'd be one thing if there were a broadly popular candidate in the Blairite camp but there doesn't seem to be one.

banduan

wow guys. I'm so sorry.

Democracies everywhere breaking down.

Pepe LeFrits

innervisionscm wrote:
Pepe LeFrits wrote:
My mate just posted a blog on the Corbyn situation, which I found interesting:

...

I see this logic in the US all the time as well, where "electable" means watering down your message, abandoning your enthusiastic base, and moving to some mythical center where there's all these votes to be won. There doesn't seem to be much evidence to support it. It'd be one thing if there were a broadly popular candidate in the Blairite camp but there doesn't seem to be one.

The center is mythical? :gape:

Burnwinter

Pep, I thought it was interesting that your friend's diagnosis was broadly similar to mine from the previous page (albeit far more knowledgeable), but then he arrived at the conclusion Corbyn's got to go because he's "wrong for the times".

To me you'd want to have a strong and popular candidate to put forward as the unifying alternative to Corbyn before reaching that conclusion.

I reckon if the "Blairite camp" (Blair must hate that word by now) cleared out of the way, Corbyn would have the latitude to develop into the sort of transformative candidate that would attract disaffected voters. The crucial point is that as a politician, he does not represent business as usual.

goon

Good to see Murdoch and the Mail play such a key part in British politics.

jones

Pepe LeFrits wrote:
innervisionscm wrote:
I see this logic in the US all the time as well, where "electable" means watering down your message, abandoning your enthusiastic base, and moving to some mythical center where there's all these votes to be won. There doesn't seem to be much evidence to support it. It'd be one thing if there were a broadly popular candidate in the Blairite camp but there doesn't seem to be one.

The center is mythical? :gape:

It's the promised land if you believe the politicians who steadily talk about garnering votes there. The only thing moving to the centre has ever done for Labour and its equivalents in continental Europe is whittle down its voter and membership numbers, now that Labour (as the only socialdemocratic party around too!) has found someone who reversed this decade old trend while not lacking the credibility to be dismissed as a cheap populist he's somehow "wrong for the times"? Can't say I agree with your friend here.

Found another interesting article regarding the coup by PLP's right:

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/06/28/truth-behind-labour-coup-really-began-manufactured-exclusive/

According to this the masterminds behind the putsch come from Portland Communications, a PR agency led by Alastair Campbell and Tim Allan. The latter was chief consultant and PR advisor to Blair, the former was responsible for the Iraq Dossier which as we all know by now was complete horseshit. Somewhat understandable that the Fabians are self-destructing right now, the latter faces prison time if Corbyn survives and follows through on his promise he'll press charges against Blair.

If Corbyn and his people play their cards right they can use this attempted coup to make a clear sweep and get rid of the majority of Blairite MPs. With Johnson dicking around and the Tories in disarray they have to take this chance.

Mirth

goon wrote:
Good to see Murdoch and the Mail play such a key part in British politics.

😆

goon

Angela Eagle emerging as the one to challenge Corbyn. Don't really know much about her, she's on the soft left right? Or centre left? Maybe it's right left.

jones

Part of the Labour Right and Fabian Society. From what I've read over the last few days she seems like the classic opportunistic career type that tried to jump on what she sees as her chance to take over from Corbyn, at least she doesn't look like she has personal reasons to go to war with him like Benn or some of the other Blairites.

Burnwinter

If you'll believe scuttlebutt that's probably about as reliable as transfer rumours, 15,000 people have joined as Labour members in the past week—to vote for retaining Corbyn if they get the chance.

I suppose all Eagle or any other challenger will need to do is mobilise a few hundred thousand people to join Labour and vote against them.

Mirth

Gove now stabs Boris in the back. This is better than the last two seasons of House of Cards.

Qwiss

innervisionscm wrote:
Pepe LeFrits wrote:
My mate just posted a blog on the Corbyn situation, which I found interesting:

...

I see this logic in the US all the time as well, where "electable" means watering down your message, abandoning your enthusiastic base, and moving to some mythical center where there's all these votes to be won. There doesn't seem to be much evidence to support it. It'd be one thing if there were a broadly popular candidate in the Blairite camp but there doesn't seem to be one.

The middle is at least in part a statistical myth. So when they poll people and you say you are strong on abortion rights but also very anti-immigration, that turns you into a statistical middle, even though you aren't middling on either.

Politicians shouldn't be middling IMO, what we need are reasonable people of opposing ideologies finding an agreeable solution through politics.

Pepe LeFrits

Depends on what you consider reasonable I suppose, but common opposing ideologies on say abortion as you mentioned would be choice at any stage in the pregnancy versus no abortion under any circumstances. A moderate position would be abortion in certain circumstances. Either party might be able to come to some sort of deal with the moderate but without the moderate you have a recipe for gridlock or complete domination of one viewpoint over the other, not agreeable solutions.

goon

I agree with Pep, the middle is a good compromise. Politicians on the right or on the left are very unlikely to find agreeable solutions considering their views are so conflicting and will not want to betray those who vote them into power in fear of losing them. You only have to look at what happened to the Lib Dembs base after getting into bed with the Tories. I don't think the centre is a myth either, there's plenty of people with views that lie somewhere between the two.

Also helps depolarise the nation in my opinion.

goon

Johnson not going to run 😆

Qwiss

Back to the panel shows for you Boris you fucking fraud.

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