UK Politics Omnishambles: Page 172 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One more in the Tolly

UK Politics Omnishambles

JazzG

Looks like a backroom deal has been done, Burnham will be the next PM probably in a few weeks.

Mirth

JazzG but with any policy it takes years for the effects to actually filter through.

And that - my dear @JazzG - is my point.

I think those policies are good, you think their not - fine. Some of it is ideology but you have to give it at least 5 years to see the full impact at the very least.

Tbh if Starmer kept his own party on side, he probably would get those 5 years - it's hard to battle the media, the opposition and your own backbenchers.

JazzG

Labour also have a by election coming up in Starmer's seat, the Greens will fancy taking that one.

Mirth I think those policies are good, you think their not - fine. Some of it is ideology but you have to give it at least 5 years to see the full impact at the very least.

True but I also think some of those policies are going to make things a lot worse even though they have good intentions. The same mistakes the Tories made, policies which paper over the cracks rather than get to the root cause.

JazzG

Mirth Tbh if Starmer kept his own party on side, he probably would get those 5 years - it's hard to battle the media, the opposition and your own backbenchers.

Another problem with Starmer, like the previous Tory government was the constant U turns. You can tell there are very few things he actually believes in. The beginning of the end was the welfare reform he tried to push through, as soon as he flinched the backbenchers knew the power dynamic shifted and he no longer had control. I don't think that bill was particularly good but as a leader if you put your name to it you need to make it goes through.

Mirth

JazzG True but I also think some of those policies are going to make things a lot worse even though they have good intentions. The same mistakes the Tories made, policies which paper over the cracks rather than get to the root cause.

I disagree - aside from the Renters Right act - none of them paper over the cracks. They're fundamentally much needed policies.

There's also nothing wrong with papering over the cracks in the first couple of years of a new parliament. Fundamentally you want the root cause addressed and resolved for every structural problem impacting the country within 2 years - that's not happening whether you have Starmer or Burnham or the ghost of William Gladstone in charge.

Also, like I said, the policies are actually popular with the electorate - until they find out who proposed them: https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/53930-does-keir-starmer-have-the-reverse-midas-touch

Mirth

JazzG agree 100%

awooga83

Mirth I mean this seems to have been the fatal weakness he didn't engage the party when planning and proposing policy which is tone deaf. Also mcsweeney seems to have been the key counsel in all of this and is very much in the blue Labour right wing camp focusing on things that the core labour party and voters don't support which is crazy. Then you try to outdo the right but they will never vote for your while you alienate your base. That is a spectacular failure.

awooga83

JazzG yeah but shows the public are also to blame they can easily distracted from substance with he'd be good to good a pint with. So ultimately it circles round to the public are culpable as much if they really want to be angry they should start with themselves.

Qwiss

awooga83 is it because he seemed like bad craic to have a pint with or is it that he's fundamentally at odds with half the Labour parties traditional base when it comes to things like Israel, Trans rights, hiring paedo Epstein cohorts, etc

The UK shot itself in the foot with Brexit and its going to take real leadership to turn things around, drive growth, etc Starmer didn't have that in him. I'd be shocked if Burnham does either.

Mirth

Qwiss Burnham wanted Corbyn to run in the 2015 leadership election because he thought that would make him look good. Even the regeneration of Manchester was set in motion by the city council leadership in the 2000s but Burnham came in at the end when a lot of the development was completed.

He's no great political operator either. I can get why the media and electorate fell for it but MPs should know better.

awooga83

Qwiss my main point was in response to the idea that the public might be annoyed about competence and I was saying if you vote Johnson that's clearly but a factor but his charisma obviously was. So that's the reason people like Johnson are so liked and that's a problem when it's how the electorate rates people so superficially.

Also agree on Burnham he's undergone this revisionism since he was last involved in Westminster politics which as you say @Mirth is odd how easily MPs seem to have bought it. A lot of the things he's said look to be tying himself to the same issue they've had before. Also it'll be the same mistake to read Burnham's margin if victory as he's done kind of saviour similar to the labour win. A lot of people were more likely voting against things that doesn't automatically convert to supporting whatever he claims he's about and risks the same disillusionment when it inevitably collides with reality.

Qwiss

Mirth from the outside Burnham seems like a canny political operator in an interparty sense. Always cosying up to the right people, not falling out with too many. I don't see it translating to the public or foreign leaders though, it rarely does.

JazzG

Oh my god have just seen he might appoint Milliband as the chancellor!

Mirth It is astonishing to see all the Labour MPs queue up to take photos with him, the whole lot of them seem to be detached from reality. I get we have a parliamentary democracy here and we won't technically elect a leader but the way he has been bought in really does take the piss imo.

He has failed twice to become leader of the Labour party, left to become mayor where his reputation has grown into making out as some kind of mythical figure who is destined to return and save the party. Then a backroom deal is done to make sure he has support in the party, I'm sure those going around doing this work are promised high positions in government. As a result an MP steps down to allow him to stand, wouldn't surprise me to see him get a seat in the Lords for this. To be fair to Burnham winning the by-election was not easy but as I have said before Reform are all over the place so he cruises to victory. People in the party tell Starmer to step down or he would be forced out in disgrace. Now there is essentially a coronation and in 3 weeks he will be PM. Politics is a dirty business man

JazzG

Rumours are he is going to bin Miliband and Rachael Reeves, goes up in my low estimation of him if he does that!

There are some real easy wins for him as he walks in, lets hope he takes them because we will all be better off.

Dom

Labour's next leader being another 'Friend of Israel' parasite shouldn't be ignored. The group's a lightning rod for the least likeable, least talented and most morally vacuous ministers. It's as good an indication as any that Burnham's going to be useless. The only unwavering principle this lunatic fringe has is furthering the interests of a small, foreign colonial entity because on every other issue they flip flop and are easily swayed by either cash or polling.

Labour's now three parties within one party (like the Tories pre-Farage) but crucially the Mandelson janissaries hold all the levers when it concerns which ideology reaches the cabinet or leadership positions.

awooga83

JazzG to be fair jazz you said everybody accepts the corruption so you can't really complain about these activities😜 look at all the Tories who moved to reform and say the policies they were involved in were not correct but this time is different etc.

Coombs

JazzG Funnily enough I think voters here are more worried about the state of our country than any potential PM's view on Israel.

Voters don't know what they're worried about.

awooga83

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jul/05/nigel-farage-did-not-declare-gifts-from-crypto-entrepreneur-george-cottrell-says-reform-uk

So much for the brave new politics to replace the broken existing privi....uurgh well you can have a pint with him at least while his fleecing you.

Qwiss

Its always the ones you most suspect.

JazzG

Like I've said before they are all corrupt, Farage getting too greedy to quickly. Writings been on the wall for Farage for a while now, he peaked last year and since then you can see things slowing unwinding at Reform. Said before he is like the dog who caught the car, doesn't know what to do now.

I reckon some of this is coming from within the party as others want to try and take control....

Mirth

JazzG Like I've said before they are all corrupt

All men are corrupt, some are more corrupt than others.

Burnwinter

JazzG Like I've said before they are all corrupt

As far as I read, Farage has been having his staffers and propagandists, his cars and drivers, and the five storey house he's been living in paid for by an off-grid organised criminal who makes his money out of gambling rackets, travels and does his business under aliases, and offshores all of his wealth.

That's a bit different from Rachel Reeve getting a couple of comps to a pop concert. This stuff is why the register of interests exists.

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