UK Politics Omnishambles: Page 138 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One more in the Tolly

UK Politics Omnishambles

JazzG

Mirth Well, why would it?

What is the point then if it isn't going to bring prices down? Surely the government should be working on major market reform to address the current pricing structure? We are pouring money into intermittent energy sources and this winter has shown that isn't the best idea without a stable base load.

The way we are going every bit of industry in this country is gonna be killed off. Different pricing mechanisms not on the top of the agenda when it comes to market reform. I don't see how this current situation is sustainable long term. This is not me putting the blame on Labour but they have the numbers behind them to actually make a meaningful change.

I'm not conflating anything nor did I say their report talks about energy pricing. I just generally mentioned that because they talk specifically about the push towards net zero.

Mirth

JazzG Surely the government should be working on major market reform to address the current pricing structure?

You seem to be looking for a simple fix for a very complex energy market. The UK's electricity pricing model is a complicated issue, and there have already been consultations on reforming it: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65ef6694133c220011cd37cd/review-electricity-market-arrangements-second-consultation-document.pdf#page31.

I'm not qualified to suggest specific changes to the pricing model, but it's worth noting that this wasn't always the case; for much of the last two decades, UK electricity prices were close to the European average using the same system (see: https://www.nesta.org.uk/blog/uk-household-electricity-prices-rose-to-levels-higher-than-those-in-any-eu-country/) but a couple of black swan events have changed the calculus

However, I strongly disagree with blaming renewable energy for the current problems. The global scale of investment in renewables, including significant commitment from countries like China that have carried out their own independent research, demonstrates that it's a widely recognised part of the solution and has worked.

JazzG

So people who want their data encrypted online are mainly pedos according to our former defence secretary...

JazzG

Mirth However, I strongly disagree with blaming renewable energy for the current problems. The global scale of investment in renewables, including significant commitment from countries like China that have carried out their own independent research, demonstrates that it's a widely recognised part of the solution and has worked.

The same China who are building a 100 Coal plants a year? That is probably why their energy prices are low, the renewable is to supplement that base load not to close down and replace with intermittent energy.

If we had this same push towards Nuclear Electricity plants I'd be all for it.

Mirth

JazzG the renewable energy component is rising faster than coal in China (went up from 20% to 30% in 10 years) and will do so for the next few decades.

Anyway, your point was that renewable energy was driving high electricity prices. It's not. The rest of this neither of us are particularly qualified to discus.

awooga83

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/feb/24/britain-net-zero-economy-booming-cbi-green-sector-jobs-energy-security

Given some of the discussion a more positive take for perspective from the CBI as well.

JazzG

Supposedly the big oil companies have not done well out of their move into renewable energy and rolling it back. Shell and Norwegian company Equinor have also scaled back plans.

Burnwinter

JazzG Supposedly the big oil companies have not done well out of their move into renewable energy and rolling it back.

Based on my experiences consulting to / working for satellites of two of these organisations, which is admittedly about a decade outdated now, they're some of the least efficient companies on earth. It's unsurprising if they're having trouble pivoting to a market where the cartel isn't yet locked in.

Government inefficiency has nothing on what you can find at a Chevron or BP.

Qwiss

I'm not sure thats a bad thing. Big oil companies probably aren't the people want running renewables.

Claudius

Qwiss it’s a good thing. There will always be inertia from fossil fuels. So let other companies focus on that. Many investors are also constrained from investing in fossil fuels. What we need is for government to advocate a rapid just transition

Claudius

JazzG

Qwiss Big oil companies probably aren't the people want running renewables.

If it isn't them it will be another cut throat capitalist company, or some of these capitalists going around parading as Green activists.

Qwiss

JazzG another cut throat capitalist company yeah but not one holding back because of its investment in fossils.

Ideally states would take control of the renewables sector, at least in Europe. I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for that though.

Claudius

Burnwinter outside of tech, very few companies can do large pivots. It sounds sensible on paper but hard in practice

JazzG

Burnwinter Government inefficiency has nothing on what you can find at a Chevron or BP.

I can see that being the case, these companies have become like monopolies and they literally just print money without having to do much. Like when you hear of these big department stores go under, they keep their old tried and tested 'business model' too long and then when it is too late can't change.

Qwiss another cut throat capitalist company yeah but not one holding back because of its investment in fossils.

Ideally states would take control of the renewables sector, at least in Europe. I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for that though.

I wonder if Trump coming in has changed their view, he is looking to rapidly expand their Gas and Oil production so they probably see opportunities there.

Mirth

Claudius exactly. It's also hard to pivot into a new stream that directly competes with your primary revenue stream - the internal politics alone would render it dead on arrival. The push into renewables for Big Oil was always just a means to create a hedge against their worst case outcome.

JazzG

This does not set a very good precedent. He basically punched the guy without any physical provocation and now gets to have his prison sentence suspended. If anything MPs should be held to a higher standard, supposedly while he was in jail he'd still get his salary. Should be made to resign.

Tam

JazzG it doesn’t set any precedent, it entirely aligns with the sentencing guidelines and the judge himself commented that the courts treat all who appear before them as equal. Salary and job security I agree are an issue, but the sentencing is standard.

JazzG

Massive success for Starmer this meeting, Trump gets his royal visit and talk of a trade deal while other countries are getting tariffs.

Tam I think that’s messed up and completely wrong that if you assault someone like that in public you get a suspended sentence. I think someone stepped in or he might have continued hitting the guy. Basically a slap on the wrist.

JazzG

Tam

This kind of sums up what I am trying to get at. Even those people who said some really vile things online last summer who jail sentences for over a year while this MP punches some bloke 5 times and probably would have done more if nobody stepped in gets a 10 week sentence and that gets suspended. The way we hand out punishment is not right imo.

Qwiss

Trump calling you a "tough negotiator" is usually a sign you are the opposite. If he called him "boring Keir" or something you'd more convinced he was pushing back at Trump.

JazzG

Qwiss lol possibly true. Starmer and his team were clever to use the King's invitation, that is what Trump really wanted. I've said before as well that I do think Trump has genuine affection for this country and we should be using that if possible to get ourselves a good trade deal out of it.

These same politicians who protested his last visit are now welcoming him with open arms and laying the red carpet out, breath taking hypocrisy. This is why in opposition you shouldn't get too carried with these grandstanding antics. They've probably spent the last few months sucking up to him.

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