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UK Politics Omnishambles

RowJimmy

Lotta right wing talking points ITT.

Burnwinter

Had a look at it and the coal mine in question is expected to export five sixths of its coal, and a couple of UK steel-makers have said they can't use that coal for coking (the sulfur content is too high). Plus the steel industry is at least starting to decarbonise.

We get these stories here too (Northern Territory in Australia) about onshore gas supposedly being vital for "local chemical manufacturing industries" that don't exist and probably aren't viable, which is why I checked.

One of the many quirks in the energy debate here has been coal projects that literally can't get finance from banks, or insurance, because they're so economically marginal and energy transition is actually happening—but which still have their barrows pushed by government. The argument's often been "we'll sell this coal to China," but China supplies 90% of its coal from domestic sources and is hell bent on reducing its coal dependency.

Government in Australia lags industry by a long mile on this stuff, including emissions targets.

Kel Varnsen

Mirth

Conservative and moderate parties will all be swallowed by populist movements in the next 5-10 years. It's inevitable and has already happened in several countries.

Burnwinter

Kel Varnsen Accurate, seems like what is happening here. The old centre right seems lost as far as differentiating itself from the centre left now, whereas the populist right is able to latch onto phobias or fantasies to develop its constituency.

Australia's opposition leader since the last election is hardline conservative Peter Dutton and his main talking points are "refugees are all criminals" and "nuclear energy"—both are empirically absurd but he gets plenty of traction.

banduan

The problem with modern centrist parties is that they place themselves at the middle of two opposing factions as opposed to two opposing ideologies. If the far right goes ever right the centrists will find themselves so far right of centre they will just be a less extreme right.

Burnwinter

That's pretty much it. One way of looking at it, anyway. Another way is the "anti-politics" analysis, which is that these centrist parties don't represent a particular set of ideas with any clarity because they lack a social base, they don't really represent anyone.

This can't quite be said of the populist right parties, they are full of shit when it comes to delivering on their rhetoric in office, but they connect quite directly with the chauvinism and nostalgia of their voters.

I just got sent the PDF pre-election report of some local democracy activists, and they've surveyed 300 locals via "kitchen table" events. 85% say they don't feel represented at all by the government, which is the centre-left mob.

goon

Burnwinter That's pretty much it. One way of looking at it, anyway. Another way is the "anti-politics" analysis, which is that these centrist parties don't represent a particular set of ideas with any clarity because they lack a social base, they don't really represent anyone.

This is probably why you're hearing a lot of 'nobody is excited by Labour'.

I personally do think/hope that if you actually deliver change for people, especially locally, it will make enough of a difference to stem the tide of populism. In that sense, the threat of populists isn't necessarily a bad thing - it's potentially a far better way of keeping centrist governments accountable. If you don't delivery or at not bold enough, you'll be punished.

Burnwinter

The centre-left gets dragged to the right more easily on social issues without the sort of dense union (and to some extent, church) backing it once had. It's not so feasible to rebuild community politics without fresh ideas about methods, though. Street protests and strikes by the few remaining powerful unions are not it. And it's not electoral parties that bear the main blame for the decline.

JazzG

What the fuck is going on.

Qwiss

JazzG there is a very weird sort of centrist pundit that carries on like this. They are all terrible, though most would find it hard to be quite as bad as Kathleen Stock.

JazzG

Militantly pro net zero but not pro doing anything to actually get to net zero...

goon

Things like this are exactly why you need strong Governments with big majorities/mandates who can make unpopular decisions.

Individual MPs will always put their electability first.

JazzG

Green party have always been that, along with Lib Dem party of Nimbies, will block everything they can. Then when shit hits the fan then complain about that. Lib Dems along with other parties have blocked water reservoir which are critical to our infrastructure.

Like you say I hope Labour use this majority to make the hard choices, it won't be popular in the short term but they'll reap the rewards long term.

Mirth

The saddest thing is most people are NIMBYs because they hate change but once it's put through their usually very happy about it and quickly become accustomed to the new status quo. Most of these folk would rather hollow out their village/town than try something different and build something of utility.

In my local area it's astounding how militant a small group of people are at any new work being done and will go to absurd lengths to derail projects. Meanwhile, the vast majority of residents are slightly pro or neutral because we've got better things to do.

goon

Mirth

Had this exact same thing in my mums old area. It eventually went despite opposition and transformed the area, everyone loved it. These militants wanted to preserve crumbling social housing.

Coombs

We have a former brown site that used to be our old Town Shop (public works). People who lived in that neighborhood when it was basically a small industrial facility are now militantly opposing a nonprofit who wants to build and operate a new childcare center there. A number of these people only have their summer cabins in the neighborhood and actually live somewhere else entirely.

For context, the only current daycare in town has a 2-3-year wait list and only takes children from 30-months old up to preschool. The daycare in the next town over just shut down late last year. Unless you're rich and can hire private nannies, you can't live and work here with kids.

People are horrible.

Qwiss

My wife worked for years with a local group that tries to do things to make the town better. They put in things like seating areas, information at historical sites, help get a theatre built locally, put on festivals, etc Anyway they were talking to local businesses about getting support and while many did quite a few told her they didn't want the town getting better as it would attract more business to the town which would mean competition for them.

JazzG

Supposedly kicked off after children’s services took away a kid from a Roma family.

JazzG

A lot of people on social media blamed muslims, trying to get their shots in before the facts come out and a few comments directed towards Greens councillor Mothin Ali who showed up. He was actually there trying to stop the rioters.

Mirth

JazzG social media

Mainly Twitter and it's toxic algos

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