US Presidential Debate: Page 47 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

US Presidential Debate

arsedocmd

In a electoral college system with some rigid states, I think the popular vote means zilch. Zero. Nothing.

lorddulaarsenal

I'm not. I'm making a recommendation lol

y va marquer

I feel the need to let fly about Trump.
Never have I despised an elected representative as much as I despise him.

lorddulaarsenal

Ah ok. As you were then.

Bold Tone

mags wrote:
@[deleted]
I agree to disagree.
The Electoral College is an archaic, anti democratic 18th century invention. The majority of voters chose Hillary over Donald. Yes.

If you still trust these pollsters, these data analysts, all I would say is that a fair number of 56% of white women are still held hostage to men in the swing states.

And I Don't buy your spin on these "intelligent adults". To me many of them reflect Trump. Shallow, thin skinned, racist, misogynous, fear lovers. I know a couple of them.

Let's not jump the gun on what he can and cannot do, what he will and will not do.

Hillary's concession was heartwarming, especially when addressing young girls, it was inspiring.
Remember she won the popular vote. Fact.

Pushing against an open door when discussing the electoral college but i'm in no position to criticise as the British model is even more flawed.
There may be fairer models but they were not in play and both candidates knew the rules.
You mention "fact" and a far more important "fact" is Wisconsin which Clinton did not bother to visit leading to a loss of less than 30,000 votes.
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/donald-trump-wins-presidency-after-stunning-victory-in-wisconsin/article_b39afbf6-c85c-5cba-becd-addfa03f841a.html
Also i always assume people are [font=Source Sans Pro] "intelligent adults" [/font]unless they prove otherwise and there's nothing that proves that the 53% of women who voted for a trump in wisconsin were less intelligent than the 70% that voted for clinton in california knowing what kind of of person he is.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-sexist-quotes-comments-tweets-grab-them-by-the-pussy-when-star-you-can-do-anything-a7353006.html
Don't get me wrong, like most non-americans, i don't understand how a man like him qualifies but, then again, i didn't think dubya qualified yet you voted for him (twice!) so i prefer to leave any criticism to those that know better like
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dear-white-women-we-messed-this-up-election-2016_us_582341c9e4b0aac62488970e

Qwiss

If you think everyone who voted for trump is lacking in basic intelligence you are part of the problem. People vote for a variety of reasons. I was talking to a guy I play an online game with who voted for Trump and his main reason was because Obamacare had pushed his premiums through the roof, a pretty common issue these days. He's not an idiot, he's not a terrible person, he just has priorities I disagree with.

Qwiss

Also hyperbole has reached an all time high in reaction to Trump. He's a shitty candidate but if a Republican win was inevitable, and with Hillary running that seems like it was the case, then he's far from the worst possible option.

jones

mags wrote:
Comments that rubbed me the wrong way.
Like she is not statesmanlike. Did people watch the debates?

Statesmanlike indeed

jones

Qwiss! wrote:
Also hyperbole has reached an all time high in reaction to Trump. He's a shitty candidate but if a Republican win was inevitable, and with Hillary running that seems like it was the case, then he's far from the worst possible option.

Exactly. Hillary winning would've meant Cruz or someone even worse would've been inevitable in 2020, now there's at least a theoretical chance someone like Sanders or another halfway reasonable Democrat might take over by then

mags

Bold Tone wrote:
mags wrote:
@[deleted]
I agree to disagree.
The Electoral College is an archaic, anti democratic 18th century invention. The majority of voters chose Hillary over Donald. Yes.

If you still trust these pollsters, these data analysts, all I would say is that a fair number of 56% of white women are still held hostage to men in the swing states.

And I Don't buy your spin on these "intelligent adults". To me many of them reflect Trump. Shallow, thin skinned, racist, misogynous, fear lovers. I know a couple of them.

Let's not jump the gun on what he can and cannot do, what he will and will not do.

Hillary's concession was heartwarming, especially when addressing young girls, it was inspiring.
Remember she won the popular vote. Fact.

Pushing against an open door when discussing the electoral college but i'm in no position to criticise as the British model is even more flawed.
There may be fairer models but they were not in play and both candidates knew the rules.
You mention "fact" and a far more important "fact" is Wisconsin which Clinton did not bother to visit leading to a loss of less than 30,000 votes.
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/donald-trump-wins-presidency-after-stunning-victory-in-wisconsin/article_b39afbf6-c85c-5cba-becd-addfa03f841a.html
Also i always assume people are [font=Source Sans Pro] "intelligent adults" [/font]unless they prove otherwise and there's nothing that proves that the 53% of women who voted for a trump in wisconsin were less intelligent than the 70% that voted for clinton in california knowing what kind of of person he is.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-sexist-quotes-comments-tweets-grab-them-by-the-pussy-when-star-you-can-do-anything-a7353006.html
Don't get me wrong, like most non-americans, i don't understand how a man like him qualifies but, then again, i didn't think dubya qualified yet you voted for him (twice!) so i prefer to leave any criticism to those that know better like
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dear-white-women-we-messed-this-up-election-2016_us_582341c9e4b0aac62488970e

Don't get me wrong, Bold Tone. The rules are the rules. And until that EC process is changed, then we follow it. But my new mantra is She beat Donald Trump by 200,000 votes.
And I suppose I could dig for numbers where she should have done better as well. I'm tired and am now climbing out of the dark hole. The rehashing can be exhausting.
We live in a media driven world, including the Huffington Post which I don't read, and I refuse to listen to these reporters and journalists and data analysts and pollsters post-election after they all, or mostly all got it wrong. I trust my own gut, my instincts about people as I did with Trump many years ago.
One of my US Senators reminded me today (good, old fashioned politician speak)
Last night, everything changed and nothing changed. We have a new President – one that half the country didn’t want. But let’s be honest – had Hillary won, we would still have a President that half of America didn’t want. So it’s still the same complicated, imperfect nation that it was before. And our job – to do good in the world, to be good parents and spouses and neighbors and friends – that doesn’t change either.

For me, it's been cathartic, discussing, agreeing, disagreeing all day long here on OMIT and with friends at home. Helps to relieve the angst and helps to move away from the darkness and fear. I think many, many Americans are doing that today. Tomorrow we pick up the pieces, support each other, have patience, giving time to see what enfolds and how it shows itself.

Bold Tone

Don't let me stop you. I understand

mags

jones wrote:
mags wrote:
Comments that rubbed me the wrong way.
Like she is not statesmanlike. Did people watch the debates?

Statesmanlike indeed

Right. Didn't watch your link, and I know it is not from the debates. I specifically said during the debates.
Yes indeed. Of course her empty headed puppet of an opponent just magnified how better suited she was for the office.

jones

Specifically during debates? So everything else is fair game, even when she's giving an interview? 😆

Trump is vile, nobody here has ever argued otherwise. Your focusing on him when people are trying to point out Hillary's gigantic flaws however is questionable. Not the first time though that you refuse to that argument so I'll leave it here

MistaT

jones wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Also hyperbole has reached an all time high in reaction to Trump. He's a shitty candidate but if a Republican win was inevitable, and with Hillary running that seems like it was the case, then he's far from the worst possible option.

Exactly. Hillary winning would've meant Cruz or someone even worse would've been inevitable in 2020, now there's at least a theoretical chance someone like Sanders or another halfway reasonable Democrat might take over by then

By which point a Republican President and party dominated Senate will have appointed 1-3 supreme court justices. This was a massive win that will solidify the impact the current conservative, bible belt endorsed Republicans can have on this country for a decade at minimum.

mags

Qwiss! wrote:
If you think everyone who voted for trump is lacking in basic intelligence you are part of the problem. People vote for a variety of reasons. I was talking to a guy I play an online game with who voted for Trump and his main reason was because Obamacare had pushed his premiums through the roof, a pretty common issue these days. He's not an idiot, he's not a terrible person, he just has priorities I disagree with.

I was responding to someone else's use of the "intelligent" phrase contextually.

Read my lips.
I have said this before.
Words matter.
My words: "To me many of them reflect Trump. Shallow, thin skinned, racist, misogynous, fear lovers."
What part didn't you get?
No words about idiots, terrible, deplorable persons, no words about basic intelligence.

Pick, pick, pick.

mags

jones wrote:
Specifically during debates? So everything else is fair game, even when she's giving an interview? 😆

Trump is vile, nobody here has ever argued otherwise. Your focusing on him when people are trying to point out Hillary's gigantic flaws however is questionable. Not the first time though that you refuse to that argument so I'll leave it here

Don't change the game, jones.
And speak for yourself. Not this nobody here business.
I specifically said during the debates. Did you get that?
And if you have read my posts, I have never stepped away from stating she has major flaws.
In fact , I have brought it up. And I voted for Bernie. Did you get that post?
Her flaws I can live with, his are appalling.

QuincyAbeyie

But whoever said she wasn't statesmanslike wasn't talking specifically about during the debates.

y va marquer

Qwiss! wrote:
If you think everyone who voted for trump is lacking in basic intelligence you are part of the problem. People vote for a variety of reasons. I was talking to a guy I play an online game with who voted for Trump and his main reason was because Obamacare had pushed his premiums through the roof, a pretty common issue these days. He's not an idiot, he's not a terrible person, he just has priorities I disagree with.

I for one never said people who voted for Trump lacked basic intelligence.

And I saw a post where you called them arseholes qs 😆

You think that the angry and the disenfranchised who pin their hopes on a man who despises and targets vulnerable people, who abuses his status to insult and molest women, are not part of the problem?

That the mentality that constantly looks to externalise blame, demonise minorities and create scapegoats is not dangerous?

I work for an American corporation where our sister sites in the US are crammed with white college educated Trump supporters, where those who visit from our site do not discuss politics.

All they want is to hold on to their wealth, privilege and guns.

As for the gaming buddy and his health insurance grievance - be interesting to see how much his premium is reduced over the coming years.

Burnwinter

Qwiss! wrote:
I'm with Genio. You can't beat the extreme right from a little less to the right. You have to fight them from the left.

I agree with you in general, where I disagree is on the specifics—I'm not convinced Sanders would have won this.

I'm a big supporter of Corbyn's as well, particularly because unlike Sanders he is a committed supporter of migration and migrants, and has fought against western military imperialism for decades. But I'm not about to predict Corbyn can win a general election even under optimal conditions.

Burnwinter

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
Trump is a brilliant communicator

Disturbing thing is the revelations about Trump's private misogyny, and his overt racism as a campaigner seem to have been his campaign strategy in and of themselves—ie that's what many of the people voting for him wanted.

Mirth wrote:
52% of voters earning less than $50K went for Hillary Clinton. Trump won (by a small margin) in the brackets above. So much for blaming the poor and unemployed for this.

I think this swing chart from 2012 is a pretty interesting tool for understanding where the electoral movements were situated demographically.

What the chart doesn't do is convert the categories of identity measured by censuses and surveys into a historical and political theory of why these things are happening—in which regard neither "whites are all racists" or "economic precarity" is entirely compelling.

« Previous Page Next Page »