US Presidential Debate: Page 41 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

US Presidential Debate

banduan

It's over, folks.

edit: now you just have to wait for Electoral College to justify its existence and block Trump.

Clrnc

😆

y va marquer

Wonder how long it'll take the rabid mob who voted for Trump to realise he will do zip for them?
Or will they not care because he's now made it OK to be openly part of a tribe that thrives on hatred of anyone who's not white?

As for any woman who doesn't thinks a vote for Trump won't hurt women....

I've had the Oompa Loompa song going around in my head since I saw the result.

""What do you get from a glut of TV?
A pain in the neck and an IQ of three"

Burnwinter

I do think people will eventually get tired of the fact that all this racist nationalism isn't doing anything to better their lives, but it's going to take a few more turns of the wheel in my estimation—probably another couple of decades at least.

In the meantime as things continue to get worse minorities and migrants will continue to wear the blame.

jones

Klaus wrote:
Daz wrote:
I agree with this to a large extent as well. From what I have read and seen there is a significant population of working class Americans who have experienced the harsh realities of neoliberal globalisation and are now reacting. The obvious problem being that they have been dragged over to the right by Trump. It's foolish to write them all off as white, racist, backwards redknecks.

I feel that's letting them off the hook personally. Racist fucking backward rednecks are the same all over the world in my experience. Consequnces of economic policies have shaped their surroundings but they would all, down to nearly the last man, have had the same attitudes if they'd been millionaires. I live among them and have them in my own family over here. They are overrepresented in the family I used to live with in Michigan too. They contribute heavily towards a glorified nazi party being our second largest political party (along with plenty of white, educated people), and Sweden is doing great when it comes to pretty much every conceivable measure of well-fare.

Some mentalities are fostered in insularity and perceived opposition to wherever the power and education is being housed. They're not easily explained away just by patting people on the head and telling them they didn't know any better because they're poor and living in rural places. They know what they are doing, and that's the genuine problem. They pride themselves on their attitudes. Bigotry is not consided a sin; elitism is.

I'd love to (completely) agree with you as there's little that I violently despise as much as racism but Daz does have a point here, racism lies somewhat dormant in a very large number of people all over the world but it's disenfranchisement and marginalisation that drives it to the surface, which becomes clear if we're looking at the correlation in the last few decades between the development of economic inequality on one hand and the massive swing to the right in all Western nations on the other.

Trying to find the positives you could say that Trump 2016 is more likely to spare us Cruz (or someone of that ilk) 2020 than Clinton would've been. Also I very much expect him to backpedal UKIP-style on a number of issues, first of all the proposed tax cuts; killing the IRS like that is just completely not viable which he'll probably find out soon enough. Maybe he'll even go full Farage and resign in a couple of days, who knows with him.

Also a yuuuuge 😆 at Clinton for losing to a candidate she created herself 😆 Fucking embarrassing. Work will be fun today, Brexit decision already resulted in a massive trading peak and that'll probably be kids stuff compared to this

ElGeniodeOviedo

Burnwinter wrote:
I do think people will eventually get tired of the fact that all this racist nationalism isn't doing anything to better their lives, but it's going to take a few more turns of the wheel in my estimation—probably another couple of decades at least.

In the meantime as things continue to get worse minorities and migrants will continue to wear the blame.

When racist nationalism is the only alternative to the status quo, it cannot be surprising if it wins.

Obama still has a very decent favorability rating on the states and Trump flipped a lot of working class counties in the Rust Belt. He even won a larger percentage of the Latino vote than Romney.

In short, I think this election was winnable for a robust leftist, but we got the candidate of Wall Street, and it's backfired drastically for the Dems

Rex

Do you guys think he will now go after Hillary as he has promised he will?

jones

El Genio de Oviedo wrote:
In short, I think this election was winnable for a robust leftist, but we got the candidate of Wall Street, and it's backfired drastically for the Dems

Yeah, fuck the Democrats for how they did Sanders. Pretty sure he'd have done better than her last night

Also 😆 at this

Burnwinter

El Genio de Oviedo wrote:
When racist nationalism is the only alternative to the status quo, it cannot be surprising if it wins.

Obama still has a very decent favorability rating on the states and Trump flipped a lot of working class counties in the Rust Belt. He even won a larger percentage of the Latino vote than Romney.

In short, I think this election was winnable for a robust leftist, but we got the candidate of Wall Street, and it's backfired drastically for the Dems

Think it might have been winnable for a different kind of left-wing outsider. I question to some extent the received wisdom that Sanders would've done better, at the very least a more detailed argument is needed to support that conclusion.

I'd refer you to the progress of someone like Jeremy Corbyn in the UK for an idea of what would've happened to Sanders in the main event, had he secured the nomination. We would've had months of fearmongering about his economic plans rammed down our throats by this point and Trump would probably be being painted as a rational alternative by a cohort of the press corps.

goon

Rex wrote:
Do you guys think he will now go after Hillary as he has promised he will?

I don't think he'll do most of the things he said he will, which is probably a good thing.

The world is one fucked up place right now.

y va marquer

Burnwinter wrote:
I do think people will eventually get tired of the fact that all this racist nationalism isn't doing anything to better their lives, but it's going to take a few more turns of the wheel in my estimation—probably another couple of decades at least.

In the meantime as things continue to get worse minorities and migrants will continue to wear the blame.

The mob will already feel let down by his speech just now
😆

Hilariously he thanks, commends and expressed gratitude to Hilary and has turned to peace, love and unity for all races and creeds.

Burnwinter

Has to be seen to do something to distance himself from the Brexitesque wave of stochastic violence against people of colour that will probably appear in the wake of his victory.

Make no mistake, this is a really bad moment.

Irishgunner

/pol/ and t_d actually managed to shitpost trump into the Whitehouse, wonder if pepe and lord kek will be in history books 20 years from now.

Clinton's a coward btw, can't believe she didn't address her supporters.

Clrnc

goon wrote:
Rex wrote:
Do you guys think he will now go after Hillary as he has promised he will?

I don't think he'll do most of the things he said he will, which is probably a good thing.

The world is one fucked up place right now.

Just think for a second if he lived up to his promise... truly terrible.

Burnwinter

Qwiss

First brexit and now this. Fucking hell there are a lot of arse holes in the world.

jones

Burnwinter wrote:
El Genio de Oviedo wrote:
When racist nationalism is the only alternative to the status quo, it cannot be surprising if it wins.

Obama still has a very decent favorability rating on the states and Trump flipped a lot of working class counties in the Rust Belt. He even won a larger percentage of the Latino vote than Romney.

In short, I think this election was winnable for a robust leftist, but we got the candidate of Wall Street, and it's backfired drastically for the Dems

Think it might have been winnable for a different kind of left-wing outsider. I question to some extent the received wisdom that Sanders would've done better, at the very least a more detailed argument is needed to support that conclusion.

I'd refer you to the progress of someone like Jeremy Corbyn in the UK for an idea of what would've happened to Sanders in the main event, had he secured the nomination. We would've had months of fearmongering about his economic plans rammed down our throats by this point and Trump would probably be being painted as a rational alternative by a cohort of the press corps.

I guess you do have a point, it's not clear cut at all that he'd have won. I'm basing this prediction mostly on the relatively little time the media would have had left to do both a U-turn on Trump and to find some major skeletons in Sanders' closet

Burnwinter

I don't think Sanders would've had too many skeletons, but they would've found something, even if it was just a hell of a lot of red-baiting.

Burnwinter

Not looking forward to Assange's hot take on how he decided the election.

ElGeniodeOviedo

Burnwinter wrote:
I don't think Sanders would've had too many skeletons, but they would've found something, even if it was just a hell of a lot of red-baiting.

Clinton will still likely win the popular vote. Her main campaign message was "the other guy's insane"; she generated no enthusiasm where other, fresher candidates would've been able to generate positive and aspirational narratives regarding their candidacy. Bernie crushed her in the state of Michigan which turned out to be pivotal in the election. Sander's had actual good positivity numbers as well. Trump's key demographic was working class whites, and Sanders' won them comprehensively against Clinton in the primaries.

Clinton was the major party candidate with the second worst net favorability ratings since pollsters have begun tracking them, behind only Trump. The Democrats made a monumental mistake nominating her, one that the Republicans ended up wisely avoiding in the form of Jeb Bush on their side of the aisle

It's an incredibly frustrating thing to have this scenario actually unfold in reality, but the warning signs were there and should have been heeded. The supposedly legendary Clinton ground game wasted a lot of energy on pipe dreams like Arizona and Georgia, which was also a crucial misstep when you look at the margins in Pennsylvania and Michigan.

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