US Presidential Debate: Page 40 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

US Presidential Debate

Daz

arsedoc md wrote:
Irish gunner wrote:
You cannot be serious 😆 😆

of course i'm serious mate. I was very tired of the continuous mocking 24 x 7 of the millions of trump voters, imagine how they'd have felt. They're humans after all with some or the other grievance which caused them to lash out by voting trump. Michael Moore had the most accurate observations towards the end of the race. He's from MI too.
Florida goes to trump. Great job white america. Great job.

I agree with this to a large extent as well. From what I have read and seen there is a significant population of working class Americans who have experienced the harsh realities of neoliberal globalisation and are now reacting. The obvious problem being that they have been dragged over to the right by Trump. It's foolish to write them all off as white, racist, backwards redknecks.

mags

Can u imagine Giuliani, Gingrich and more mad men in his administration?
I can't get over the turnaround this means for the two major parties.
This has got to be one of the worst days in the Democratic Party's history.
It's really, really difficult to get my head around this.

arsedocmd

Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity will be the Goebbels of 21st century. Imma start reading up on the internment camps, survival tips and all.

arsedocmd

It's mildly funny how CNN anchors faces are right now. Their despair is so apparent. Clutching at straws with WI while fox has called it for trump long while back.

mags

All of these issues will be wrecked:

Immigration
Affordable Health Care
Climate change
NATO?
Aleppo?
Roe v Wade
Raising minimum wage
Equal pay for women
And
The rich get richer, the poor get screwed.
I'm grieving.
Good night.

mags

One more thing.
The NRA spent more than 6 million dollars to reelect the scum bag Republican senator from North Carolina.
He is the one who encouraged putting a bulls eye on HRC's picture.

Mirth

Ffs America. You had one job

Mirth

On the plus side the £'s going to strengthen relative to the $. Thanks America!

Klaus

Daz wrote:
arsedoc md wrote:
of course i'm serious mate. I was very tired of the continuous mocking 24 x 7 of the millions of trump voters, imagine how they'd have felt. They're humans after all with some or the other grievance which caused them to lash out by voting trump. Michael Moore had the most accurate observations towards the end of the race. He's from MI too.
Florida goes to trump. Great job white america. Great job.

I agree with this to a large extent as well. From what I have read and seen there is a significant population of working class Americans who have experienced the harsh realities of neoliberal globalisation and are now reacting. The obvious problem being that they have been dragged over to the right by Trump. It's foolish to write them all off as white, racist, backwards redknecks.

I feel that's letting them off the hook personally. Racist fucking backward rednecks are the same all over the world in my experience. Consequnces of economic policies have shaped their surroundings but they would all, down to nearly the last man, have had the same attitudes if they'd been millionaires. I live among them and have them in my own family over here. They are overrepresented in the family I used to live with in Michigan too. They contribute heavily towards a glorified nazi party being our second largest political party (along with plenty of white, educated people), and Sweden is doing great when it comes to pretty much every conceivable measure of well-fare.

Some mentalities are fostered in insularity and perceived opposition to wherever the power and education is being housed. They're not easily explained away just by patting people on the head and telling them they didn't know any better because they're poor and living in rural places. They know what they are doing, and that's the genuine problem. They pride themselves on their attitudes. Bigotry is not consided a sin; elitism is.

Burnwinter

It's a mainstream movement, but it's a predominantly white movement, and it's certainly not all working class people. White Americans somewhat unsurprisingly perceive that their material interests lie with the outspoken racist candidate who's vowed, implicitly or explicitly, to harm everyone else in the country, set up a racially paranoid labour valve at the border, and restore protectionist trade policy.

flobaba

Lolll

Can't stop laughing.

Democrats are in shock over here.

Bold Tone

What exactly is Trump's 'fiscal plan'?

With the Republicans holding the Senate and the House, there is now a greater chance that some, or all, of Trump's fiscal plan will be enacted. But the tax cuts, which are worth around $6trn over the next decade, would be mostly unfunded, particularly if Trump also boosted infrastructure and defence spending. It is hard to believe that the Tea Party fiscal conservatives in Congress would be willing to blow out the budget deficit like that. It would put the Federal debt burden on course to exceed 100% of GDP within a few years. On trade, we expect Trump to start by labelling China a currency manipulator and to bring a number of perceived disputes to the WTO. Tariffs are possible further down the line, but won't be the first option. He will also insist on renegotiating NAFTA, but it is hard to know what he hopes to achieve. His main criticism is that Mexico (and Canada for that matter) has a VAT, which he has characterised as a one-way de factor tariff. That is economic gobbledygook. TPP and TIPP are dead. Given the adverse market reaction we have already seen, the Fed's planned December rate hike is now off the table. There is a possibility that Fed Chair Janet Yellen and even some other Fed Governors (Lael Brainard??) will resign immediately. Although Trump can't sack Yellen before her term ends in February 2018, his win demonstrates that many Americans share his view that she has been overtly political. Under those circumstances, she may feel duty-bound to step aside

Posted at 06:10
by Paul Ashworth
Chief US economist, Capital Economics

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-37875340

Daz

Klaus wrote:
Daz wrote:
I agree with this to a large extent as well. From what I have read and seen there is a significant population of working class Americans who have experienced the harsh realities of neoliberal globalisation and are now reacting. The obvious problem being that they have been dragged over to the right by Trump. It's foolish to write them all off as white, racist, backwards redknecks.

I feel that's letting them off the hook personally. Racist fucking backward rednecks are the same all over the world in my experience. Consequnces of economic policies have shaped their surroundings but they would all, down to nearly the last man, have had the same attitudes if they'd been millionaires. I live among them and have them in my own family over here. They are overrepresented in the family I used to live with in Michigan too. They contribute heavily towards a glorified nazi party being our second largest political party (along with plenty of white, educated people), and Sweden is doing great when it comes to pretty much every conceivable measure of well-fare.

Some mentalities are fostered in insularity and perceived opposition to wherever the power and education is being housed. They're not easily explained away just by patting people on the head and telling them they didn't know any better because they're poor and living in rural places. They know what they are doing, and that's the genuine problem. They pride themselves on their attitudes. Bigotry is not consided a sin; elitism is.

I can see where you are coming from Klaus and I agree with you to some extent. But I don't think it's about letting anyone off the hook. I just think it's too easy and simplistic to write it off as white/racist/backwards etc. The only way to challenge this kind of movement is to understand its various elements and challenge them with genuine progressive alternatives.

Rex

I feared this.
Hardens my stance that most people are just various degrees of idiots.
Thank you, America, for giving us a new Hitler.

lorddulaarsenal

Lol Trump time!

Burnwinter

The old left economic arguments play into the hands of economic nationalists who oppose migration, Daz. We see that in their popularity with the fascoid parties of the European right, whose policy agendas are often to the left of neoliberalism, and with Trump's own protectionist, nativist and masculine-workerist rhetoric.

With economic globalisation already having occurred to a significant extent, and having made the regulation of production "in one country" intractable, anti-nationalism and post-nationalism are where it's at.

That's what needs to happen on the left, not another few decades wasted in a futile battle to close the stable door of the social covenant of the post-WWII era when its economic underpinnings have already bolted. We actually do need very new and different political structures, and if we don't build them someone else will.

lorddulaarsenal

😆

Rex

I just don't see this as a laughing matter. I'm genuinely scared. Idiot America has elected the anti Christ. 🙁

Daz

Burnwinter wrote:
The old left economic arguments play into the hands of economic nationalists who oppose migration, Daz. We see that in their popularity with the fascoid parties of the European right, whose policy agendas are often to the left of neoliberalism, and with Trump's own protectionist, nativist and masculine-workerist rhetoric.

With economic globalisation already having occurred to a significant extent, and having made the regulation of production "in one country" intractable, anti-nationalism and post-nationalism are where it's at.

That's what needs to happen on the left, not another few decades wasted in a futile battle to close the stable door of the social covenant of the post-WWII era when its economic underpinnings have already bolted. We actually do need very new and different political structures, and if we don't build them someone else will.

I agree Burnsie, I'm not sure why you would think I'm suggesting a return to nationalism or old socialism/labourism.

lorddulaarsenal

Sometimes all you can do is laugh Rex. This feels like a horrid dream.

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