Rex wrote:

He actually said that?

Yes. Live on TV. In front of other people. Without irony.

The same Michael Owen who went to United instead of Liverpool!

Clrnc wrote:

Ricky1985 wrote:

How the heck have Sevilla finished outside the top 4 in Spain and not won an away game all season? They're quality. As their record here attests to.

Not sure about the away game failures but it was clear since February that they don't give a damn about La Liga. Emery constantly fielded weaken teams in the league to concentrate on the Europa League since it is easier to get into the UCL by winning this. Villarreal was quite far ahead at that time. As Klopp noted, they couldn't scout Sevilla since 4 weeks ago as it was pointless with all their "fake" teams.

Emery once again prove how good a manager he is. This is a tactical masterclass. He outfoxed Liverpool in every department and his tweaks in the 2nd half worked to perfection. Coke and Vitolo moving in-field caused Liverpool so much problems. There's just so much to like about Sevilla, from their transfer wizard Monchi to their manager to their players.

Mirth wrote:

No fucking way.

I think Jones would remember that argument about how La Liga is so much weaker compared to the PL. Just can't remember who said that ridiculous statement

I'm not as petty as to name names but the funny thing is there were several posters who said as much.

Good call re Monchi, best director of football bar none imo. Not only responsible for bringing through youngsters like Ramos, Reyes and co but he has an incredible worldwide network, e.g. don't think anyone even in Brazil has ever heard of Dani Alves when he signed him.

Ricky1985 wrote:

And the truth is Sevilla would have probably beaten any Premier League team put in front of them tonight. The vast majority comfortably.

The La Liga teams are technically far too superior. Sevilla embarrassed City in their 2 encounters this season but Gameiro was in retarded form in front of goal. Nzonzi found it very difficult to cope with how good technically the Spanish teams are initially but now he is a Europa League winner coming from Stoke!

Mirth wrote:

Clrnc wrote:

Just realised the last 3 winners of the Europa League and UCL are Spanish clubs. Incredible.

6 out of the last 10 CL winners and 7 out of the last 10 Europa league winners are from Spain.

Even discounting the Supercups it'd be still 16 titles for Spain and 10 from Germany, England and Italy combined.

Clrnc wrote:

Ricky1985 wrote:

And the truth is Sevilla  would have probably beaten any Premier League team put in front of them tonight. The vast majority comfortably.

The La Liga teams are technically far too superior. Sevilla embarrassed City in their 2 encounters this season but Gameiro was in retarded form in front of goal. Nzonzi found it very difficult to cope with how good technically the Spanish teams are initially but now he is a Europa League winner coming from Stoke!

Pretty much. Their technical ability and organisation generally trumps the huff and puff of the English clubs. Pool hared around trying to force mistakes but sevilla stayed brave and calm,  and reaped the rewards

Why are they so much more technically superior?

What impresses me more are their secondary and tertiary teams like Seville, atletico etc.

I think it's largely because most of the teams in La Liga are built around inteligence; generally and tactically, whereas the Premier League is built on athleticism over and above everything else.

Pretty much. Loads of players in England have talked about how youth coaches generally field the biggest, strongest and quickest and ignore actual talent on the ball far too often.

I also think ironically the comparative lack of money in Spain has forced them to improve in ways that English coaches never deemed necessary to achieve results. Like Wenger said once success makes stupid people more stupid and money and success go hand in hand.

Bit disappointed in Klopp, in the post match presser he was harping about the penalties he should have gotten for about ten minutes. Understandable that he's frustrated to an extent but after lost finals in the past he was a bit more gracious.

In the last three CL & EL seasons (which were all won by Spanish teams) only two Spanish teams were knocked out by other European competition (Villarreal by Pool '16 and Real by Juventus '15) - the other ten (!) occasions a Spanish team dropped out of a competition it was at the hands of their compatriots.

Also Sevilla have won more European titles than all English teams combined in the last ten years. Mental

Reyes has now won the Europa League 5 times.

Incredible.

Segway wrote:

Ricky1985 wrote:

It's not knee jerk from my point of view because I have always felt that way about him.

He's a superb motivator, superb man manager, and he is good at getting his team's to play one particular way, but overall I think he's way behind the best managers out there tactically.

Hmm maybe. It's difficult to gauge which exact factors have made him succesful since his Dortmund days. It will be interesting to see how he fares next season when he will have had the opportunity to sign his "own" players this Summer. 

It'll be really interesting to see what he's like in the transfer market actually, iirc he had no control over transfers at Dortmund.

Klopp's had to work with this mediocre squad till the summer.

Just have a look at the defence they had to field- Lovren who's a walking liability and Kolo fucking Toure who was past his best 6-7 years ago.

The final loss will be a blow to signing the summer targets they want without Cl football but he'll be judged on the next season as he'll be the one re-shaping the squad now.

Also for those wanting Emery just remember than Sevilla have a history of doing well in this competition. Remember Juande Ramos also won two Europa league titles with them.

dreamlord wrote:

Ricky1985 wrote:

He's a superb motivator, superb man manager, and he is good at getting his team's to play one particular way, but overall I think he's way behind the best managers out there tactically.

Yeah, I feel the same way and said as much earlier this season. Maybe he'll prove the doubters wrong next season once he gets some signings in, but without CL it's an uphill task. Managing to get top 4 would be an overachieving for Pool, such is the difficulty now.

Yeah, it's a pivotal loss for them. With UCL he will be able to attract star names and rebuild his squad. The only saving grace from this is that he can concentrate on the league next season. I wouldn't particularly blame Klopp on this defeat. His tactical knowledge is always underrated but over the years we have seen how he turn games around with subs impressively. Of course he is not as crazy as Emery with his hours of video editing and team talk homework for the players but he is still a very good manager tactically and one of the very best in europe.

I particularly like how Emery didn't concede the game and superiority to Liverpool even when they are 3-1 up. He subbed in like for like and continue to push forward forcing Liverpool back as Klopp teams have a tendency to tire in the last 20 minutes. Attack was the best form of defence for them, and Wenger could learn from not subbing in stupid players who can't hold possession like Gibbs and invite teams to attack us.

Ricky1985 wrote:

I think it's largely because most of the teams in La Liga are built around inteligence; generally and tactically, whereas the Premier League is built on athleticism over and above everything else.

And for that very same reason it is also why La Liga games always seem more open than usual. It's not really bad defending per se when we see high scoring games but more of how good the players are in the league when attacking and splitting defences. Their teams have really dominated the last decade of europe like no others.

jones wrote:

Pretty much. Loads of players in England have talked about how youth coaches generally field the biggest, strongest and quickest and ignore actual talent on the ball far too often.

I also think ironically the comparative lack of money in Spain has forced them to improve in ways that English coaches never deemed necessary to achieve results. Like Wenger said once success makes stupid people more stupid and money and success go hand in hand.

This is an excellent point and described best by Monchi. Really interesting to see how they cope with so many key players moving every year and still win major trophies year in year out.

A cash-rich import market, England is useful too. Gary Medel, Alberto Moreno, Navas, Reyes and Negredo went to the Premier League, their fees totalling more than £65m. “England’s a good client,” Monchi says. A stupid one, with more money than sense? Monchi says no, but there are differences he discovered when he set up in London for six months to analyse it better.

“There are loads of off-field things in which they beat us easily,” he says. “And on the football side, I saw very good work being done. But there’s a disconnect between that work and the advantage they glean from it. I know English clubs that are very professional, scouts everywhere, but the information they gather isn’t always applied. Why? Because they have money. That enables them to take fewer risks: ‘I’m not going to discover Keita at Lens; let Sevilla do that and then buy Keita from Sevilla.’”

And so Keita goes to Sevilla first, then moves on, which is good for everyone. But first: football. “Winning has given us sporting glory and that has a knock-on effect economically,” Monchi says. “We’ve created an environment conducive to players succeeding and improving. I went down to the dressing room after the semi-final and Adil Rami, who’s been at Lille, Valencia and Milan, hugged me and said: ‘I don’t know what it is about this club but I’ve never played a final in my life before and in one year I’m playing three.’”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/17/sevilla-monchi-liverpool-europa-league-final

jones wrote:

In the last three CL & EL seasons (which were all won by Spanish teams) only two Spanish teams were knocked out by other European competition (Villarreal by Pool '16 and Real by Juventus '15) - the other ten (!) occasions a Spanish team dropped out of a competition it was at the hands of their compatriots.

Also Sevilla have won more European titles than all English teams combined in the last ten years. Mental

The last time a Spanish team lost an European final against a non-spanish team was 15 years ago:
Valencia vs Bayern, by penalty shoot-out.

The refs being lenient to "they dont like it up them" tatics in english football leads the managers fielding more athletic players. I was talking to a youth coach at Man city and he was saying they only develop massive players now.