Arsenal vs. Barcelona Tuesday 745PM: Page 32 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal vs. Barcelona Tuesday 745PM

USArsenal

Bold Tone wrote:
Klaus wrote:
He's eligible, Basel failed to qualify for this year's group stage so there's no question about it. It's curious that he can't even make the bench.

Wenger thinks Flamini is better than this guy.
Now i understand why Barca, Real Madrid, China, Macclesfield Town, etc were not fighting for his signature and i'd never heard of him till our interest. He is a midfield Gervinho who we will end up selling to obscurity.

Wut?

Jed

That miss in the first half from Oxlade-Championship sums him up. Nothing player.

Giroud will never be a top class striker.

Mertesacker is finished at this level.

Flamini = Rocks for brains.

Ricky1985

Mirth wrote:
otfgoon wrote:
N
So they don't go all out (i.e. into 5th gear) because they could concede and end up losing?

It wasn't our best performance either, I don't really get what point you're trying to make, but I really don't like the assertion that this could have been 6-1 if they wanted it to be. Why would they bother holding back away from home if they can just smash everyone (or us).

And I have no idea what you're arguing any more. My opening post was not in response to you and the term 'second gear' was merely illustrative of the fact that they weren't over committing but controlled the game for the most part.

Second gear makes it sound like they were cruising, they weren't. They had to play more cautiously because it was clear we could expose them on the counter. They didn't have another gear to go to otherwise they would have gone into it.

Wenger was angry afterwards because once again it got to the crunch time of the game when we were really starting to get on top and we get over confident, unprofessional and do something monumentally stupid that gives away a goal.

He only has himself to blame for not improving the weak players in the team, but some of the stupid things these players do is beyond comprehension. Mertesacker for both goals, Flamini for the second goal, decisions that defy all logic when in promising positions in the final third - it's absolutely criminal.

Wenger gets a lot of stick for his tactics but I think they were spot on as they usually are. We played them perfectly in the first half right up until Chamberlain, the big pansy, decided he couldn't (or had an excuse not to) run anymore after Mascherano walloped him - still had the audacity to come out for the second half the arrogant little shit!

I know it's not a fashionable thing to say but I wonder what Wenger would do against this Barcelona side with Boateng, Lahm, Alaba, Thiago, Douglas Costa, Muller, Robben, Lewandowski.

Man oh man, we need to find a way to get some world class players into this squad...

Ricky1985

Tactics wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Oh well. Everyone thought we'd lose and we did. We played quite well, we were against 12 men, we didn't embarrass ourselves yet the same problems with our lack of goals still haunt us.

I hope we rest a few for the second leg. Time to focus on the league.

That would be the sensible thing to do but I think Wenger is going to play our strongest team.

We could easily get beat, literally, about 9-0 if we rested even one too many! That's the reason why he won't do it, not because he actually thinks we have a chance. He's no fool.

evoh1

Ricky1985 wrote:
Mirth wrote:
And I have no idea what you're arguing any more. My opening post was not in response to you and the term 'second gear' was merely illustrative of the fact that they weren't over committing but controlled the game for the most part.

Second gear makes it sound like they were cruising, they weren't. They had to play more cautiously because it was clear we could expose them on the counter. They didn't have another gear to go to otherwise they would have gone into it.

Wenger was angry afterwards because once again it got to the crunch time of the game when we were really starting to get on top and we get over confident, unprofessional and do something monumentally stupid that gives away a goal.

He only has himself to blame for not improving the weak players in the team, but some of the stupid things these players do is beyond comprehension. Mertesacker for both goals, Flamini for the second goal, decisions that defy all logic when in promising positions in the final third - it's absolutely criminal.

Wenger gets a lot of stick for his tactics but I think they were spot on as they usually are. We played them perfectly in the first half right up until Chamberlain, the big pansy, decided he couldn't (or had an excuse not to) run anymore after Mascherano walloped him - still had the audacity to come out for the second half the arrogant little shit!

I know it's not a fashionable thing to say but I wonder what Wenger would do against this Barcelona side with Boateng, Lahm, Alaba, Thiago, Douglas Costa, Muller, Robben, Lewandowski.

Man oh man, we need to find a way to get some world class players into this squad...

Wenger persists with these players and if he wanted better then maybe spend some of the excess we have had each year on improving the squad and getting rid of squad player dross signed to develop in elite quality. Wenger would never end up with those players you mentioned above. He has likely had chances to buy them and decided to stick with his lot.

Yes we created chances today and played the game well but we folded in the same way we have for over a decade now. Lack of ruthless ability and stupid Bone headed mistakes that lead to goals.

This team is capable of better, it just needs a manager that realises he doesn't have vieira, Campbell, bergkamp and Henry anymore.

Klaus

Ricky1985 wrote:
Wenger was angry afterwards because once again it got to the crunch time of the game when we were really starting to get on top and we get over confident, unprofessional and do something monumentally stupid that gives away a goal.

He only has himself to blame for not improving the weak players in the team, but some of the stupid things these players do is beyond comprehension. Mertesacker for both goals, Flamini for the second goal, decisions that defy all logic when in promising positions in the final third - it's absolutely criminal.

You'd think he'd have learned something by now though. Per put us out of Champions League last season too. Flamini was awful last season too. We failed to take our chances in front of goal last season too. It's not like any of the problems are new; they just haven't been solved. Instead we line up with the slowest centreback in England against the fastest forward line in Europe and act surprised when he's left in the dust. We play three forwards who score once every other month and think it's weird that they can't swing the game in our favour against one of the best teams in the world.

y va marquer

If we'd had Messi playing for us we'd have beaten them 2-0 I reckon.
The gulf in class resides in the fact that they have Messi, Neymar and Suarez - we just cannot match that.
That was obvious before the game, just as obvious after the game.
Though we did play well, we weren't able to put a flawless performance together, which is what we needed to have any hope.

Ricky1985

That's about the long and short of it. And kind of what I was saying myself really.

Football has never really been quite as it is now - so few great players playing for only three clubs. And that's it. It's hard for me to really blame Wenger with that in mind. He can do better but everyone not in Madrid, Barcelona and Munich are in just about the same boat.

Jed

Sanchez-Aubameyang-Griezmann

Would give Barca's trio a run for their money. Wenger doesn't wanna spend though and would rather stick with Oxfail and Giroud.

flobaba

You really don't need a team of superstars to beat the Barcelona side we played today...

QuincyAbeyie

@[deleted] It wouldn't be close to giving Barca's trio a run for their money, each of their three attackers would be immensely better than our counterparts.

It'd be a great front three though.

Burnwinter

This tie's a real mismatch, and a distraction from what's actually on offer for the players we do have, nearly all of whom I like despite their faults.

Just forget about the Champions League and focus on winning the league—that's the best way to step towards money, reputation and attracting top strikers to the club.

Asterix

Yep. I haven't really been interested in the Champions League since Henry left, because I don't think we can realistically win it. We'd have to be incredibly lucky in the draw or beat at least 2 of Barca, Madrid and Bayern. I don't think we're capable of doing that.

I'm much more interested in us going for the League and the FA Cup.

Sure, if we went deep in the CL I'd perk up but really it's a cash cow and a bit of a pain in the neck. I'm quite sure the players don't see it like that, and I am probably in the minority as far as fans go too.

Have only seen a couple of highlights. The miss by the ox was cancelled out by two from Suarez. Ox probably needed to toe poke it. The covering defence was closing his angle down meaning he had to shoot for the middle.

Now we need a quick physical and mental recovery to put in the same level of effort to beat the Mancs.

Clrnc

I differ slightly from some of the opinions here. After last night's match, I actually think we are really really close to greatness with just 2 more additions. No longer are the days where we get totally overawed by top teams and have shitness like Silvestre in defence. Man for man, for 70 minutes we were holding on decently and in most big matches this season we actually more than matched any top team we faced.

Our main problem is really, lack of goals. For all Giroud's good work, he is still a very limited striker and we just need someone more special to take us forward. Before Mert made that reckless move, we created enough clear cut chances to put them to the sword with our proper game plan. Our problem was not finishing, as it is for majority of this season. Upgrade Giroud and Ox and the team will give anyone a run for their money.

Mertesacker is as good a defender as you can get when you want to soak up pressure. I am very surprised our defence coped with MSN so well, better than any team did this season. Monreal 1v1 bettered Suarez and Messi, Neymar didn't trouble Bellerin at all. Everytime they tried to break through the middle they met strong resistance from our CBs. It was really nice to see how strong our defence is. The main regret is that when we want to push up Mertesacker gets exposed time and time again. That first goal was a carbon copy of Monaco's 2nd goal, and I am pretty sure we have see that more than those 2 occasions. It's so so familiar, that dive because he knew he wouldn't be able to catch them and they are open on the counter. Why did we even push that high up in a match where we are well placed to get a good result? The lack of discipline from some of our players is incredibly frustrating. Wenger is rightly furious with this dejavu.

Asterix

That's either down to the player or to Wenger's coaching. In either case the buck stops with him. So does our lack of goals. I think it's probably another 3 great players though - a striker, winger and a central defender.

Gazza M

i think merte might actually be finished at arsenal. his cock up against chelsea made wenger drop him, and he's now produced 2 costly errors against barca. wengers 'naive' comments felt aimed at him.

Burnwinter

It's a slight difference of opinion I think. We're definitely close to being a strong force in the Premier League, for next season I'd go with Asterix's assessment as the Koscielny-Mertesacker partnership is going into decline.

This Barcelona team has a superior frontline to the Ronaldinho–Eto'o–Messi one from 2006, which the Invincibles faced while Messi was injured. We'd be hugely strengthened by any one player of the calibre of any of their forward trio. We had the chance to acquit ourselves pretty well, and we did, nothing was or is more important than the league challenge.

mdgoonah41

i tried to just take a deep breath after the match before posting long drawn out thoughts. and really, it doesnt matter anyway. but whatever.

the most disappointing of this game, and many big matches we've played in the last 10 years, is how expectations change during a match. before the match, if youd have said "we'll lose 2-0" it probably wouldnt have been the worst possible thought. a lot of people thought we'd get smashed, so 2-0 isnt the end of the world. then the actual match happens, and we could have been 1-0 up a few times. when suarez missed that header at the end of the first half, i allowed myself to think maybe it was actually our night to get a monumental result. then, we did what we do, and we end up losing 2-0.

before even getting in to individual performances, for me, the single biggest issue in this team is the lack of leadership. cech is arguably the only leader we have, and hes a GK, which is the toughest position for your leader to play, because hes so disconnected from the moment to moment action and when you're attacking, hes too far away to "lead"....mertesacker isnt a leader. he does not organize, he doesn't step up in crucial moments, and he doesn't do what is needed.
to make matters worse, he makes really bad decisions at key times. for some reason, he was pushed up the pitch for their first goal. this is like the 10th time he has cost us a goal just like that. he gets high up the pitch, he gets caught flatfooted, and then in an instant he makes a terrible decision. i suppose him flailing away there was his only option, because he cant catch anyone at all, but his poor positioning got him in that spot, and for someone with zero pace, if you have poor positioning, you are basically a worthless defender. when we are pinned back and he can't get forward, he can do a job. but what is the point? barca's trident is 3 short/agile/fast players, those are the types of guys that will always cause him problems. he played decently in the first half, but when things got chaotic in the 2nd half, he didn't provide leadership, he got caught out of position and he cost us 2 goals. i like the personality he is off the pitch and his love for arsenal, but he should not be the captain and he should not be starting games like this. if you want to rotate him and use him against the likes of bournemouth at home, fine. but against the best team in the world with a historic strike force? it was just asking to get burned.
remember when ramsey was scoring audacious goals with both feet and looked unstoppable? how can he not even hit the target at this point, or come within 5 yards of the target? his workrate is commendable and he obviously has talent, but i still do not think he works in a 2 man midfield. he left coquelin exposed so many times today and at a few points he was our player who was the most forward in terms of position. its just nuts. part of it is the formation. we should be playing with 3 midfielders, and this was the perfect game to do it. you could have played coquelin and flanked him with ramsey and el neny. you'd have then had 3 workhorse players in the middle, and if ramsey wanted to make runs, there would have been 2 guys covering him. of course a 3 man midfield makes our attack a bit tougher to build, because you have to play ozil, probably centrally, and that leaves 2 spots for alexis and someone else. but i personally think this is the formation we need to play. we need to control the center of the pitch. keeping possession would be much easier with 3 central midfielders and ozil in front of them. alexis doesn't play like a winger anyway, so you may as well move him more central alongside giroud where he can feed off knockdowns and the link-up play. we only get width now from our fullbacks, so playing alexis more centrally doesn't change that.
speaking of width, special kudos to monreal. he got harshly booked in the 6th minute and managed to keep the best player of all time quiet for most of the match. the first goal was not his fault. obviously the penalty was not his fault. his form has oscillated a bit over the last few months, but he's been fantastic for the most part. i also thought bellerin handled himself really well.
the run where oxlade got away and then took a terrible touch, allowing the defender to knock the ball out of play and also injuring ox in the process pretty much sums up his entire arsenal career. one step forward, two steps back.
flamini, lol. if wenger gives him another contract this summer, then i think there is absolutely positively no way you can defend wenger's actions anymore.
at least we can focus on the league and FA cup, at least for a few more weeks until something bad happens. i do hope that once we are no longer in the league wenger gives someone like chambers at run of a few games to see what he can do.

dreamlord

^I'm the first one to point out the negatives of Ramsey's eagerness to get forward, but I think he chose his moments perfectly yesterday, at least in the first half. In the second half the entire team seemed get over confident and pushed up. But yeah, hopefully now people see why Ramsey getting all those chances is actually a bad thing.

dreamlord

on whether Gerard Pique got a yellow card on purpose…
I don’t know. They are tricky. When they go down, they shout. They never go down silent. That influences the referee every single time. All of them do it, not one of them goes down without shouting.

on whether Barcelona did it a lot in the first half…
I have to watch the game again. I didn’t look out for it. It’s like they provoke a reflex for the referee.

Fuck Barca.

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