WWJCD?: Page 10 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

WWJCD?

ElGeniodeOviedo

We don't need to constantly compare Chamberlain and Campbell, we could easily shift both if needed (more playing time for Jeff! next season then)

Campbell hasn't been great but he's been a warm body who hasn't been a total liability, particularly on defense. That's really all we could ask of him, but I doubt he will be a long term fixture here. He may last one more season here as a back up again, but eventually he will want to play, and he's good enough for a midtable side in La Liga to pay for him.

Chamberlain is talented, but he needs to add goals to his game, period. He also seems to lost individual spark, while not looking to have added tactical/defensive nous. I don't doubt that the boy is skilled, but he's not better than he was in 2013. That is a concern.

yuv

jones wrote:
Wilshere has showed much more in the last few years when he was fit than Chamberlain, the gulf between them is pretty big both talent and performance wise imo. You're allowed to make the analogy (even when it's wrong), I'm being generous today. 🙂

You are indeed generous, thank you so much.

Jacks talent card can only go so far: he's "more talented than Ramsey" (think that's a common view) - would anyone even contemplate playing Jack for Aaron at this point? (assume both healthy and playing their average game). Jack has a huge talent, but he still has to prove it in real life. Same for Ox (So Jack's is bigger. The talent. So?)

jones

yuv wrote:
jones wrote:
Wilshere has showed much more in the last few years when he was fit than Chamberlain, the gulf between them is pretty big both talent and performance wise imo. You're allowed to make the analogy (even when it's wrong), I'm being generous today. 🙂

You are indeed generous, thank you so much.

Jacks talent card can only go so far: he's "more talented than Ramsey" (think that's a common view) - would anyone even contemplate playing Jack for Aaron at this point? (assume both healthy and playing their average game). Jack has a huge talent, but he still has to prove it in real life. Same for Ox (So Jack's is bigger. The talent. So?)

You're welcome 🙂

This is pretty much my point - if you're saying Ramsey has to play over Wilshere because he converts his (lesser) talent into performances more often then you'd have to say the same for Campbell (lesser talent) and Chamberlain. Obviously the proportions aren't the exact same but the idea behind it is what I'm trying to argue here.

yuv

But I am saying Joel should play over Ox 😆 ... for now.

I am not concluding Joel is the better player/will have a better career here. In fact I believe the opposite.

Klaus

jones is right though. Wilshere is a unique talent, and I don't use that word as liberally as some people do. He has already proven himself in a way most players at this club haven't. He will always have a place in the first team for as long as Wenger manages it, and unlike the sad case of Abou Diaby this is an instance where Wenger is actually right.

If Jack got back tomorrow I would start him alongside Ramsey right away, and keep him in the starting eleven for the rest of the season at the expense of both Coquelin and Cazorla, no questions asked.

yuv

...and you'd be mad doing so 😆

Klaus

Actually, I'd probably play him on the wing at the moment. But same difference.

yuv

Seriously - no one doubts Jack's talent or potential, but he needs to be in form, playing consistently, and consistently well, to earn such privileges like that. I'd play him with coq before I'd play Ramsey with him. But anyway, we're stretching. The point is really "does Ox have a special talent claim at all, even if not Jack's level"?

Klaus

Right. Yes, Chamberlain is a special talent worth keeping around even when he's stinking the place up. Campbell is not imo.

jones

yuv wrote:
But I am saying Joel should play over Ox 😆 ... for now.

I am not concluding Joel is the better player

I do, just like I say Ramsey is better than Wilshere. Ability on the ball will always be worth more than physique for me. But we're going in circles here.

yuv wrote:
Seriously - no one doubts Jack's talent or potential, but he needs to be in form, playing consistently, and consistently well, to earn such privileges like that. I'd play him with coq before I'd play Ramsey with him. But anyway, we're stretching. The point is really "does Ox have a special talent claim at all, even if not Jack's level"?

He has a special physique, and that alone isn't enough to say he's a special talent. Had he developed decent, Arsenal level ball control and passing in the last few years he might have counted as a special talent, but being rapid and beating your man isn't worth much when your final ball is wayward more often than not. He has an outside chance to make it here, and that's if he can stay fit and get a run of good games soon. If that doesn't happen I see him playing for Southampton or similar.

Wilshere slots in at RW when he comes back and should stay there for the rest of the season if he's fit, Wenger has probably the same in mind. I've been against benching Cazorla to play Ramsey centrally (as you were if I recall correctly) but if both him and Jack come back and to a decent level I wouldn't mind it. The much bigger problem here is finding someone to replace Coquelin. Knowing Wenger he'll call Hayden back from Hull.

Rex

Klaus wrote:
Right. Yes, Chamberlain is a special talent worth keeping around even when he's stinking the place up. Campbell is not imo.

That's about the long and short of it. Campbell is just a bland player. He doesn't have a single top quality attribute.

yuv

jones wrote:
He has a special physique, and that alone isn't enough to say he's a special talent.

Is that all he has going for him? if I thought so, I wouldn't think he's worth the fuss.

I've been against benching Cazorla to play Ramsey centrally (as you were if I recall correctly) but if both him and Jack come back and to a decent level I wouldn't mind it. The much bigger problem here is finding someone to replace Coquelin.

Agree on both points - I fear Santi just isn't coming back from this (long lay off, nature of injury, age and, what was inevitable anyway - Ramsey taking his place in the long run), but if he is returning to the level he's been playing generally (not the last few games), and unless we see something really special from Jack - he'll still slot in ahead of Jack (at least as far as CM is concerned), and it's not just Wenger - I agree with it as well. It's trickier regarding Ramsey: I always thought long term the change will happen with Santi's decline and Aaron returning to form. It just didn't happen till now. But once Aaron plays there for 4 months, I'll think carefully before just throwing chubby back in. In fact I'd rather "just" have him as an Ozil back up (+ special roles, super sub, etc.) - would keep both fresher, and that crucial role always ticking.

No arguments about Coq's importance (and thus priority finding a replacement) - always thought so, and what we've been seeing, including yesterday, doesn't change my mind at all.

Rex

We don't need a replacement for Coquelin, but rather a player good enough to provide proper competition for him.

yuv

We don't need a replacement because he's available?

Rex

I was more speaking long term of course.

spacemanspiff

Made himself an Arsenal career tonight

goon

Showed some genuine quality tonight. Hopefully that silences people like jones.

Mirth

Great night for him, bad luck Chambo.

Klaus

Amazing assist today. Credit where it's due. He's stepped up and provided the kind of end product we needed during this injury-ridden period.

jones

Sorry lads, there's no room left on the bandwagon

Try campaigning Iwobi or something

« Previous Page Next Page »