#deadlineday thread (Summer 2015): Page 28 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

#deadlineday thread (Summer 2015)

Biggus

banduan wrote:
We've mishandled Theo the same way we've mishandled so many things.

Oh so you identify with Wenger and his clownish cliche do you?

Irishgunner

Di Marzio is saying that we went for Juventus' Zaza on deadline day but they wanted €30m.

Klaus

Zaza 😆 One Welbeck wasn't enough.

Bryant

Klaus wrote:
Zaza 😆 One Welbeck wasn't enough.

I don't get why Juve chose him over Berardi 😆 . Too bad Berardi's injured now (preventing a potential bid).

Zlatan also said there was no Arsenal interest: "No," Ibrahimovic is quoted by the Daily Mirror as saying when pressed about Arsenal's reported interest. "The interest that existed, I have not committed myself to.

If there was one player we should've aimed for, it should've been Reus for 60m pounds.

jones

Klaus wrote:
Zaza 😆 One Welbeck wasn't enough.

You don't rate him? Looked decent from limited viewing. Not what we should have gone for (especially since we must have heard of Berardi too then) but better than Welbeck

Klaus

Yeah, I dunno. He's a decent player, but his limitations are obvious. A lot of his goals came from inside the box or were the result of Berardi taking the piss with some outrageous pass. I'm as surprised as Bryant that Juventus bought the remaining rights to him, but I guess they needed some squad bolster. This way Berardi could have another season of development.

I would have taken a punt at Gabbiadini at Napoli instead. He's roughly the same size as Zaza but he's younger and I think he's got more about him. Some of his touches have been pretty outrageous:

Klaus

Gabbiadini would have given us a good option on either wing too, making it easier to either play Alexis up front or at least move him to the right flank where he doesn't drop as deep.

Captain

Bryant wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Zaza 😆 One Welbeck wasn't enough.

I don't get why Juve chose him over Berardi 😆 . Too bad Berardi's injured now (preventing a potential bid).

Zlatan also said there was no Arsenal interest: "No," Ibrahimovic is quoted by the Daily Mirror as saying when pressed about Arsenal's reported interest. "The interest that existed, I have not committed myself to.

If there was one player we should've aimed for, it should've been Reus for 60m pounds.

We're saving it for Gotze.

Bryant

Klaus wrote:
Gabbiadini would have given us a good option on either wing too, making it easier to either play Alexis up front or at least move him to the right flank where he doesn't drop as deep.

After hearing news about Welbeck's injury, a player like Eder might've been useful too.

Klaus

Yeah, Eder has opened this season in stellar form. He's really stepped up since Gabbiadini left for Naples. There's a plethora of players in Serie A who would have been better options than Zaza.

Biggus

Klaus wrote:
Zaza 😆 One Welbeck wasn't enough.

Who is he Klaus an Italian Welbeck?

The best constantly injured defensive attacker in the team...... 😆

Tam

Klaus wrote:
Yeah, Eder has opened this season in stellar form. He's really stepped up since Gabbiadini left for Naples. There's a plethora of players in Serie A who would have been better options than Zaza.

Why do none of the top level players in Italy tend to come to England?

Balotelli being the biggest name aside, if you see an Italian player come in recent times it tends to be to the likes of West Ham (I think they've had a couple of the last few years), Newcastle (Santon) or Sunderland (Giaccherini). That's just a few off the top of my head but I can't think of any players who come with big reputations, adapt well and perform to a high level. I'm pretty sure over the years there has been a few highly rated Italian players have come and been a let down after a year or two and went back to Italy. Aquilani there's another highly rated failure in England. You've got the likes of Pelle at Southampton that has done well but I reckon he's a bit of an outlier having come via Holland.

There's been plenty of Italian successes in the past, and by that I mean relative to the size of team they signed for, not just absolute top level players like Zola. But there's probably been a lot more failures. Is the culture in Italian life and football really so different as to explain it alone? I've often seen that mentioned as a reason but I struggle to think a Spaniard, or a Korean, or a South American can come and adapt but it's just the Italian's that miss Nonna's pasta too much.

Biggus

I still believe with the right manager and a bit of love Balotelli could be a success.

Bryant

The same could be said vice versa, Tam. Why haven't any English players come to Italy? That's an easier answer though, because the PL is better and Italian teams don't see the value in buying overpriced English players.

I think the issue with regards to Italian players is that there is a lack "top level" players there right now, but there are plenty of interesting players that can improve us. Italy aren't producing the same amount of talent they used to, similar to Brazil. It doesn't help that the most interesting and best talent are monopolized by Juve, who basically own most of the top young prospects of Italy (Pogba, Rugani, Berardi). I think those Italian failures/disappointments you mentioned also shied PL teams away (even non Italian ones like Jovetic, Lamela, and Cuadrado).

It's a shame we don't take a gamble on players in Serie A because we got two of our best players from Serie A (Henry and Vieira) and Italian teams usually sell their players for reasonable prices. I think Gabbiadini (Klaus's mention) was very attainable if we paid Welbeck money. I saw Inter try to do a double deal for Gabbiadini and Ghoulam (who was linked to us too) for 28m euros and we could easily pay 35-40m euros to get the duo.

Tam

Bryant I'd started typing out a response about why I thought Brits didn't travel abroad and why Italians might not come to England, then did a bit of research to find numbers of Italians in the league compared to other nationalities and was surprised to find that (since the start of the Premier League in 1992) there appears to have been more Italians than Germans. I'd always bought into the preconception that Italians never traveled well and were failures for the most part but it looks like that was a hasty judgement.

I've not went into it as a breakdown across the years so it might vary or be skewed towards the earlier days. I've not got the time to look further at the moment but I certainly find it interesting.

Claudius

Biggus wrote:
I still believe with the right manager and a bit of love Balotelli could be a success.

given how things have panned out, i would have been fine with a gamble on him this window. he is such a talented player. there has to be somebody, maybe even the hapless Wenger, who can unlock it again. remember, he was a beast for Milan early in his career, so i'm not speaking hypothetically here.

Klaus

Tam wrote:
Is the culture in Italian life and football really so different as to explain it alone? I've often seen that mentioned as a reason but I struggle to think a Spaniard, or a Korean, or a South American can come and adapt but it's just the Italian's that miss Nonna's pasta too much.

Honestly, aside from the currency and the need for a good winter jacket there's little about London that is different from Milano, or Madrid, or Barcelona. At least from my experience. The big cities are multicultural these days. Clubs have translators and contact persons both on and off the pitch and will help you learn the language. And so forth.

I think the reason is the Italian football culture and little else. They don't really go to Spain either, or France. Italy is similar to England in this sense. Ravel Morrison is at Lazio now, but how many English youth go abroad?

It's starting to change though. Darmian evidently has to trouble playing in Premier League. I reckon more of the young guys will come. There's only Juventus at home and they can't all play there. Plus the money in PL is getting really ridiculous.

EDIT: I didn't see Bryan's response, but that's definitely a factor too. Especially the way guys like Jovetic have been treated. He was one of the 'adopted diamonds' of Italian football and City treated him like some U21 reserve. Now he's back and tearing it up for Inter.

Tam

Well I suspected as much Klaus, and when you're living off that kind of salary I also suspect you can have anything you want pretty much.

As I said in my other post I started going into it a bit more and deleted it. But like you and Bryant say, the English aren't well traveled either, though I suspect that has as much if not more to do with being technically or tactically lacking compared to continental players.

The other factor you mention is something I was going to touch on too. I wondered if the perception of failure surrounding a lot of Italians in the league both put off teams signing them and Italians being willing to come to England. I can imagine that might work both ways.

y va marquer

Having lived in Milan, Barcelona and London I'd say there's quite a lot of differences between them, some possibly subtle, but the daily feeling of living in those three was very different for me.
I imagine it'd be less different for a millionaire footballer as they would not experience the day to day in the same was as the normal working person and would be cosseted by the club.

Tony Montana

y va marquer wrote:
Having lived in Milan, Barcelona and London I'd say there's quite a lot of differences between them, some possibly subtle, but the daily feeling of living in those three was very different for me.
I imagine it'd be less different for a millionaire footballer as they would not experience the day to day in the same was as the normal working person and would be cosseted by the club.

On a side note that's the thing about languages as well. It's not just a case of knowing the exact translations. You need to feel the culture too to learn it fluently. Speaking in another Language puts you in a different zone. Klaus and yourself can attest to that.

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