Klaus wrote:
Mirth wrote:

There is no 'criteria' obviously. People vote for a variety of reasons - some of them vote for their mates, some people vote the way they do because the value club football over international football and vice versa.

Either way, most people would agree that Messi and Ronaldo are the two best footballers of the past generation and also the biggest headline grabbers. It's hardly surprising they get the most votes.

I didn't say it was surprising. I just said it's a result of the way the voting is structured, and it's going to remain that way until they change the system. You pointing towards Ribery 'coming close' to breaking that tie doesn't disprove the point. It reinforces it.

Not really, I consider Ronaldo and Messi to be the best two players of the last 5-6 seasons. I don't believe at any point someone like Ribery surpassed either of them as an individual player. If the history books were to chronicle football history over this period based on the awards, they'd conclude that Messi is the best one of the lot, followed by Ronaldo. And that would be correct.

Ribery coming close reinforces my point, not yours. Particularly since your opening gambit was that he wasn't any where close to winning it. When he patently was within a 3% swing. Which is the closest anyone has ever come to breaking the strong hold. Just because you don't like the result doesn't mean the entire voting system is wrong because judging who the best individual in a team sport is a subjective process.

Savz wrote:

COSTA THE KILLER!

The fuck are you on about?! You DO know this is an Arsenal forum right? Are you aware that every Arsenal fan with his head screwed on right absolutely detests Costa? Actually, that's every football fan of every club other than Atletico Madrid and Chelsea.

Mirth wrote:

Just because you don't like the result doesn't mean the entire voting system is wrong because judging who the best individual in a team sport is a subjective process.

It's wrong when the same two players come out on top every time regardless of what anyone else achieves. If rating achievement is indeed subjective then an award where you know the outcome before the season has even started has a genuine problem when it comes to the voting process.

Getting really tired of this discussion now. You either see the problem with it or you don't, but the complete lack of a criteria for winning other than what people perceive to be the 'best individual', without something tangible to connect that to apart from goal stats, makes it all a bit pointless.

Tony Montana wrote:

Michael Owen is so annoying.

Michael Owen Quotes (@mickyowenquotes) tweeted at 9:22 PM on Wed, Mar 09, 2016:
19:50: "The balls are light so it will be a quick game".

Zlatan Facts (@ZIatanFacts) tweeted at 9:35 PM on Wed, Mar 09, 2016:
Zlatan's nose is longer than Chelsea's history. #ZlatanFacts

Klaus wrote:
Mirth wrote:

Just because you don't like the result doesn't mean the entire voting system is wrong because judging who the best individual in a team sport is a subjective process.

It's wrong when the same two players come out on top every time regardless of what anyone else achieves. If rating achievement is indeed subjective then an award where you know the outcome before the season has even started has a genuine problem when it comes to the voting process.

Getting really tired of this discussion now. You either see the problem with it or you don't, but the complete lack of a criteria for winning other than what people perceive to be the 'best individual', without something tangible to connect that to apart from goal stats, makes it all a bit pointless.

You make it out to be that the Ballon d'or has always been this predictable. That's never been the case until Messi and Ronaldo came around. Few players in history have EVER dominate individual awards like they have. True, the awards do throw up some controversial names once in a while - but which award ceremony doesn't? It's a whole lot better this way than the PFA awards which some rewarded Giggs for just being alive a few years ago. Now that really was mockery. Having a set criteria would ruin not only the awards but the discussion around them - you might as well have their fucking whoscored.com stats up there instead.

And yes, a lot of great players have achieved some amazing feats in the past few years. But so have Messi and Ronaldo. You fail to confront the most obvious fact that these two set new records on practically a weekly basis which automatically make them favourites to win the Ballon d'or on a regular basis. Moreover, they have carried their teams for large parts of the season and win a fair amount of trophies themselves. So that doesn't make it wrong in my eyes. I would say, in the past 6 years, they got the winner of the Ballon d'or right 5 out of the 6 times. Do you agree? If so, I think there's a serious lack of perspective in your argument.

Rex wrote:
Savz wrote:

COSTA THE KILLER!

The fuck are you on about?! You DO know this is an Arsenal forum right? Are you aware that every Arsenal fan with his head screwed on right absolutely detests Costa? Actually, that's every football fan of every club other than Atletico Madrid and Chelsea.

I actually find him pretty hilarious, he's like an OTT hillbilly character. Stuff like this is just gold. 

If the award is for the best player in the world, then Messi should have won it those years Ronaldo won it too.

otfgoon wrote:
Rex wrote:

The fuck are you on about?! You DO know this is an Arsenal forum right? Are you aware that every Arsenal fan with his head screwed on right absolutely detests Costa? Actually, that's every football fan of every club other than Atletico Madrid and Chelsea.

I actually find him pretty hilarious, he's like an OTT hillbilly character. Stuff like this is just gold. 

Yeah, I was actually a big fan of his when he was at Atlético. Back then he didn't dive nearly as much but still threw a couple punches every game, plus he went to town on Pepe and Ramos during every Madrid derby which automatically made him a decent bloke in my book.

Klaus wrote:
Claudius wrote:

how tightly do you come up with a definition? do you say something as simple as the player who contributed most to their team winning? how do you define contribution and how do you stack winning? is one FA Cup enough or does it need to be the biggest haul of big name trophies? do you weight the leagues?

Yeah, it's hardly an exact science. I think when it comes to someone like Ribery, being widely regarded as the best player on the team that is winning Champions League, Bundesliga and the German cup is pretty much a grand slam though. You literally can't perform better.

The Ballon d'Or is a trophy for an individual player; take Ribery out of that Bayern side and put another very good winger in there and they still would have been a top contender for all three trophies. Take Messi out of Barcelona that year and they would have struggled to 3rd place maybe instead of winning the league with 100 points despite their manager being hospitalised all season.

I'd also add that Martinez was a close second in terms of importance for Bayern that season and that using this logic you might have made a case for Sneijder in 2010 (who won the treble and got Holland to the WC final). If Barcelona weren't robbed against Inter that year they win back to back CLs and it would have to be Messi again for the Ballon, same possibly if Messi and Busquets weren't injured during the CL semis 12/13 and they had a healthy manager on the sidelines. So it makes sense imo over the course of a full season to give it to the player who by himself is clearly superior to other contenders.

Verratti wasn't playing tonight, which is part of the explanation, but the level of carelessness with the ball PSG showed in deep positions will have to improve a lot if they are to be in with any chance of winning the CL this season.

Hope PSG win it. Zlatan deserves to bow out with a CL winners medal.

Claudius wrote:
Savz wrote:

Wait until the next Ballon d'Or, Ronaldo won't make top 2.

40 goals in 36 games. Even better Champs League record. Just who is going to be voted ahead of him?

Suarez

y va marquer wrote:
Tony Montana wrote:

Michael Owen is so annoying.

Michael Owen Quotes (@mickyowenquotes) tweeted at 9:22 PM on Wed, Mar 09, 2016:
19:50: "The balls are light so it will be a quick game".

Well he's right. Carrying heavy balls around slows you down so much.

I know yesterday PSG made lots of mistakes, but they still play the ball really well from the back. Stark contrast to the way our backline and midfield plays. Motta is especially brilliant at this.

Rex wrote:
Savz wrote:

COSTA THE KILLER!

The fuck are you on about?! You DO know this is an Arsenal forum right? Are you aware that every Arsenal fan with his head screwed on right absolutely detests Costa? Actually, that's every football fan of every club other than Atletico Madrid and Chelsea.

Right on Rex, with you all the way mate!

Rex wrote:

If the award is for the best player in the world, then Messi should have won it those years Ronaldo won it too.

Aaaand then you go an join all the other Messi masturbators.

Come on Biggus, that's just not necessary.
In any case you must know Rex cannot see your posts.

Hey thats his choice, he chooses to vacate the field so he relinquishes the right to reply and self defence.

War does not decide who is right, only who is left.

Go Biggus
Go Biggus.

6 days later

All first 12 penalties go in Atletico v PSV. Serious cojones from all involved so far.

I managed to catch some of the Atletico game. They have to be one of the most boring clubs in Europe. Every fucking time they're playing a CL game they look like a Scolari-coached nightmare.

They really are. When they came to the final they played well against both Milan, Chelsea and Barcelona before they played defensive against Chelsea. To be fair they don't have a working offensive. Their entire playing style seems to depend on a rock solid defense with the occasional magic from Griezmann and Carrasco.

Klaus wrote:

I managed to catch some of the Atletico game. They have to be one of the most boring clubs in Europe. Every fucking time they're playing a CL game they look like a Scolari-coached nightmare.

Hard to argue with results though, yes they should've comfortably beat PSV but yet another clean sheet. They likely have the best defensive record in Europe

They're very effective. They're just not very fun to watch as a neutral.

cajones and a don simeone coached team go hand in hand. he's like the total opposite of wenger and that's fuckin awesome.

If they had better offensive players they'd be much more appealing.

Still I enjoy watching them. Drilled, disciplined, working system.

Did fan favourite Don Simeone's team really have to limp over the line, or was it that they just couldn't get the ball in the net on the day or something?

I think a lot of credit have to be given to Cocu's PSV. He changed his shape and took the game to Atleti. Was unlucky not to get something out of the game given that they dominated the proceedings at the start.

Cocu would be an interesting candidate to replace Arsene IMO. Hardly ever hear his name being branded out by the media. Willems and Moreno was outstanding for PSV yesterday again, would love them here.

Absolute world class from Morata in the Bayern-Juve game.

Insane quality from Morata for Juves second against Bayern. Should have a goal from a sublime chip as well.

Reminded me of Walcott against Liverpool.

Ripping run. Of course the cunt muller had to equalize.

Lichsteiner should have scored there.

Bayern and Juve. Two proper solid European teams.

Spain - Barca
Italy - Juve
Germany - Bayern
England - ?

Can't wait to see Leicester in UCL. Technically their counter attacking style suits European Football 😆

Can't believe the only European Trophy Buffon has won was with Parma. Deserved more.

Juve have looked terrible since taking Morata off. Total wenger sub.

Ah Bayern scores. Can't believe Juve let a 2 goal lead slip. All they had to do was to defend, which is their forte.