Starting "CM" next season - Ramsey vs Cazorla?: Page 9 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Starting "CM" next season - Ramsey vs Cazorla?

Iloveyouarsenewenger

Ray wrote:
Yeah, we need someone with rapid pace in central midfield who can cover a lot of ground.

That's why I wondered how useful someone like Wanyama can be for us when the Schneiderlin debate was on. What works for Coquelin over Arteta is his speed and aggression. Good anticipation can only be used when you have the pace to win the ball back at dangerous positions.

Someone with power, pure aggression and anticipation to win the ball back and play simple passes can be more useful to us, right now, than a cultured deep midfielder.

Ray

Not sure about Wanyama, he seems like a cart horse. Nainggolan or Rabiot would be decent.

Qwiss

Wanyama isn't a carthorse at all. Not sure he'd be good enough for us but he's not far off. He'd be a good starter for Spurs or Liverpool. He's not a sitting deep style DM either though. He's the epitome of box to box.

marv3llous

Arteta should not be anywhere near our squad right now. Truly hope we buy another CM, if we plan to bin Flamini as well.

Shady

Iloveyouarsenewenger wrote:
Ray wrote:
Yeah, we need someone with rapid pace in central midfield who can cover a lot of ground.

That's why I wondered how useful someone like Wanyama can be for us when the Schneiderlin debate was on. What works for Coquelin over Arteta is his speed and aggression. Good anticipation can only be used when you have the pace to win the ball back at dangerous positions.

Someone with power, pure aggression and anticipation to win the ball back and play simple passes can be more useful to us, right now, than a cultured deep midfielder.

We need someone who encompasses all these qualities (big ask I know). When Mertesacker plays, we struggle when he doesn't have someone coming deep to get the ball off him and distribute forwards. I still don't think Coquelin is good enough. Maybe this will change if Gabriel can make himself a first teamer.

Anzac

Iloveyouarsenewenger wrote:
Ray wrote:
Yeah, we need someone with rapid pace in central midfield who can cover a lot of ground.

That's why I wondered how useful someone like Wanyama can be for us when the Schneiderlin debate was on. What works for Coquelin over Arteta is his speed and aggression. Good anticipation can only be used when you have the pace to win the ball back at dangerous positions.

Someone with power, pure aggression and anticipation to win the ball back and play simple passes can be more useful to us, right now, than a cultured deep midfielder.

Vidal is who we 'need' in that role IMO - however the issue remains that Rambo is the player most often described as playing in that role.
Essentially we lack genuine balance despite any pretence of flexibility. AW's 4141 at the start of last season with 4 AMs behind the CF and a DLP at CM is indicative of the core issues re our inability to combine winning the ball with quality distribution. Aw then further confuses the issues by wanting to play with numbers in the final 3rd.

Anzac

Shady Shakes wrote:
Iloveyouarsenewenger wrote:
That's why I wondered how useful someone like Wanyama can be for us when the Schneiderlin debate was on. What works for Coquelin over Arteta is his speed and aggression. Good anticipation can only be used when you have the pace to win the ball back at dangerous positions.

Someone with power, pure aggression and anticipation to win the ball back and play simple passes can be more useful to us, right now, than a cultured deep midfielder.

We need someone who encompasses all these qualities (big ask I know). When Mertesacker plays, we struggle when he doesn't have someone coming deep to get the ball off him and distribute forwards. I still don't think Coquelin is good enough. Maybe this will change if Gabriel can make himself a first teamer.

The bonus re Gabriel rather than BFG is that Gabriel allows AW to play the ultrahigh line with a DLP linking from midfield, rather than a DM to provide protection & win the ball between the lines, AND then also need a DLP in midfield.

kamikaze

ramsey, and it's not a hard decision. defending is a big part of football, and it's why wilshere isn't a top CM despite his skills.

Mirth

Yeah, so, I was wrong on this one.

Play Cazorla in the middle.

laymans

Ramsey stopped being a viable central midfield option when he decided to emulate Steven Gerrard. The same way Gerrard was played on the right and behind thr striker. You can't play guys like that in midfield because they are tactically reckless. Cazorla is the closest thing to a Xavi, and he was our second best player last season. Due to pressure from the fans and Ramsey himself, the selfish Welsh man finds himself in midfield again ahead of a superior player. Sad.

Mirth

Sadly, I think you might be right. The last thing I wanted Ramsey to become was another Steven Gerrard.

ChiliPalmer

I'll have to correct myself from earlier, Ramsey and Coq aren't even Europa League level, they're beyond shit.

Ray

Yep, Cazorla can play the Xavi role, and does it well. Ramsey alongside Coquelin won't work. Caz-Coq does though.

Main problem with Ramsey is he is too slow on the ball, get's caught out by any amount of pressure.

Qwiss

laymans wrote:
Due to pressure from the fans and Ramsey himself, the selfish Welsh man finds himself in midfield again ahead of a superior player. Sad.

That's quite an imagination you've got there. 😆

Rex

Ramsey is clearly the better central midfielder. That he was largely crap today doesn't change that. He wasn't any worse than Cazorla fwiw, and Cazorla played a fair bit in the middle too.

dreamlord

I hate that Ramsey's first instinct is to bomb forward nowadays. I much preferred the player he was back at the end of 2013 alongside Arteta.

Just play him deeper and add some defense stability to our midfield. Stop playing midfielders in the forward line, and let the front 4 do their business with minor support from Ramsey and the FBs.

y va marquer

Ramsey's passing at key moments was off, he made some poor decisions, he doesn't distribute the ball consistently as effectively or as creatively as Cazorla does from deeper positions.
His pre-season form merited him getting his chance in central midfield today but he could do with watching more of Santi and try incorporate some of his finer points into his own game.

Klaus

Santi against these type of pacy, direct, counter-attacking players would have been a sight to behold. As if West Ham weren't leaving enough tire marks on him when they ran him over on the wing today.

Wenger has assembled an annoyingly unbalanced squad where we can't get the most out of our best players at the same time. This has been the main problem for the last two years and it's going to be the main problem this season too. We're likely still years away from having the sort of team that can execute his attacking philosophy well. Such a depressing thought.

Temo

I think Ramsey's a lot more limited than people think, his atheltism's world class, and it's what he's used to impose his game till now, but his technical deficiency is getting more glaring with each season

Rex

You think he is getting WORSE technically each season now, eh? :hmm:

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