Starting "CM" next season - Ramsey vs Cazorla?: Page 49 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Starting "CM" next season - Ramsey vs Cazorla?

Doc

Has never really convinced me that he is good enough to play in in that position for a top side but tbh this team has gone backwards and while this was top priority in the summer, it's just one of many issues now

Temo

Rohit wrote:
If Ramsey's purple patch counts for little and I do think he has been very poor this season technically, I wonder what we will think of Coquelin in the summer. Did he just ride a wave of momentum and form too or is that his real level? He hasn't found the same level consistently this season even before his injury.

He looked class before his injury.

Klaus

Coquelin's a bang average footballer with a first class workrate. That's not a bad thing, but there's no way we should have relied on him as a starter, and now we're stuck with no way to build our game from the back unless you want Kos and Mert to push into midfield and then get caught on the counter.

Temo

Selling him abit short there Klaus

Rohit

He had some very good games and some poor ones. I am not really criticizing him because he has recently come back from his injury but only asking a question if he too is a long term solution. We are struggling to keep the ball on the ground and build through midfield. We have looked less porous through the middle with Coquelin, this game aside, but the midfield has to take some blame for how poor our build up is under pressure.

Temo

I don't disagree - our passing game is shocking. Coquelin usually plays like he gives a shit though. And by that I mean he's actually willing to stick his head where is hurts. So in the context of the squad we've assembled Coquelin's a welcome counter-weight.

Klaus

Yeah, Coquelin plays with a lot of enthusiasm on the field. He takes responsibility out there too. I like him a lot for it, it's endearing. But he's two clear cuts below the top tier as a footballer. Ideally he'd be a squad player and keep honing his skills, but who is there to learn from in this team? Flamini?

yuv

Santi's injury in the end was the blow that cost us the title. Team just doesn't have somebody who runs the play and could be the heart of every type of move, go to guy deep in our area but going forward as well. In Theory Rambo should have been this guy. he wasn't this year, and we're bleeding.
The Coq attack is ruthless and ott. He's a top DM not in the best of form. Missed a long time out, mind. I'd love to have someone better than him and him as back up, but - come on... we've been playing Flamini, ffs.

Temo

Klaus wrote:
Yeah, Coquelin plays with a lot of enthusiasm on the field. He takes responsibility out there too. I like him a lot for it, it's endearing. But he's two clear cuts below the top tier as a footballer. Ideally he'd be a squad player and keep honing his skills, but who is there to learn from in this team? Flamini?

Well we all know he's an exclusively defensive CM. Even if you expect him to have Xabi Alonso's passing range, I don't think many else do. So with that, as a pure like for like replacement, who would you prefer?

Clrnc

Klaus wrote:
Coquelin's a bang average footballer with a first class workrate. That's not a bad thing, but there's no way we should have relied on him as a starter, and now we're stuck with no way to build our game from the back unless you want Kos and Mert to push into midfield and then get caught on the counter.

He's being sold out there by Ramsey, especially today. Most of the time he can't even pass forward because there are no options other than our defenders. El Neny came on and found the same thing. It was shocking.

I am not worried by Coq's form currently. He is poor at the moment but he was more than decent before his injury.

jones

Yeah, Ramsey is the one we should be worried about. He's been poor more often than Coquelin this season and now his work rate, the one thing that he always had even during his worst times, is going down as well.

marv3llous

Aaron Ramsey has been dribbled past 51 times this season, more than any other player in the PL. [Opta]

That is an astonishing stat. I have a feeling his poor form may be down to something not being right in his head. Remember how he used to work really hard and chase down everything but got the same hamstring injuries due to fatigue? Is he instructed to put in less effort or has it simply affected him psychologically?

dreamlord

I too think Coq is the lesser problem, and a midfield with him in it is easier to fix than a midfield with Ramsey in it.

Gunner89

Starting CM next season?

At the moment neither of those for me and nor Coquelin at DM.

Qwiss

marv3llous wrote:

Aaron Ramsey has been dribbled past 51 times this season, more than any other player in the PL. [Opta]

That is an astonishing stat.

Strange one as he has the second most tackles per game in the squad too (only Coq slightly ahead). So what does that mean, probably dives in too often.

Also worth noting that Gabriel has a decent bit higher tackles per game vs Kos and Mert which I would say indicates it is about going in too often instead of just containing.

Burnwinter

Mean's he's highly mobile and runs all game, often isn't well set defensively as a consequence.

Qwiss

Probably a big part of it Burns. Either way I still think he usually does his fair share as the midfeilder beside the defensive mid when it comes to defensive duties.

I think Ramseys problem at the moment (which aren't that bad he was good against Bournmouth and Barca) is that he's playing too like Cazorla. He's sitting deep and playing less adventurous passes instead of trying to push us on and linking up with Ozil.

Ray

I don't think Ramsey has the required defensive instincts to play CM, he can't sense the danger, and often leaves huge holes in midfield.

Qwiss

But Cazorla does?

Not that it matters anyway, neither Ramsey nor Cazorla should be asked to contribute that much defensively and shouldn't be criticised for leaving "holes in midfield". We have a designated defensive midfield in Coquelin. The only area where he excels is in defense, he needs to be the one plugging all the holes in midfield or else he's not worth his place. Ok in certain big games like Barcelona he's going to need help and you play more conservatively as a result but in run of the mill league games a top side doesn't need 2 defensive midfielders.

Ray

Cazorla doesn't either, but he isn't being thought of as a long term solution to CM, Ramsey is. Against Utd, Herrera was finding so much space in the centre of the park whilst Ramsey was either wide or too forward, Sanchez was playing CM at times. Ramsey only works in a 3 man midfield which eventually leads to Ozil or Sanchez having to come deep.

A new CM needs to come in this summer.

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