Starting "CM" next season - Ramsey vs Cazorla?: Page 46 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Starting "CM" next season - Ramsey vs Cazorla?

Klaus

Gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that we would have been a good deal worse off if it had been Ramsey who had been out for the last few months and not Cazorla. Imagine us trying to string together any form of attack without him between December and February. Bloody hell.

flobaba

Maybe, maybe not.

Klaus

Imagine a Flamini-Cazorla midfield. If nightmares could have nightmares, that's what they would dream about.

flobaba

Any midfield combo with Flamini as the anchor is bound to be a disaster, I agree

dreamlord

Klaus wrote:
Imagine a Flamini-Cazorla midfield. If nightmares could have nightmares, that's what they would dream about.

Yep fully agree, and have said the same before. Said it in a far darker way though..that it was good that Cazorla was injured the same time as Coquelin...

yuv

Heh, just wrote about it in the Leicester thread - I agree.
I don't agree with Klaus about losing Ramsey for Cazorla. It would have been a 50-50 call before, but given how Ramsey's actually played at that time, missing Santi was the worst thing that happened to us this year.

Rex

In your opinion.

yuv

In my opinion? what do you mean? I thought we're all here representing someone else. I wrote the above in the name of the pope, FWIW. Dude just llloves footy, and crazy about Cazorla.

dreamlord

😆

Oh Rex.

Mirth

😆 Rexed.

Bold Tone

Not sure but i'm beginning to suspect that Rex secretly likes Ramsey.

Rex

You were very assured and stating as some sort of fact that us missing Cazorla was the worst thing to happen to us this season. Well, it's not a fact, it's an opinion, and I believe you are dead wrong.

In my opinion, the worst thing to happen to us this season was Wenger being Wenger; he didn't strengthen the squad with a single outfield player in the summer, he did fuck all about the squad again in January, and he keeps playing Flamini despite the bloke being a shit footballer. Cazorla being injured made things a little worse, but it was nowhere near the worst thing to happen this season. I'd probably have three or four other candidates ahead of Cazorla being injured as 'the worst' as well. So there.

Mod edit. Edited out unrelated religious talk.

FEBravo

In your opinion

Rex

That's what it says.

Qwiss

Klaus wrote:
Gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that we would have been a good deal worse off if it had been Ramsey who had been out for the last few months and not Cazorla. Imagine us trying to string together any form of attack without him between December and February. Bloody hell.

We were actually in pretty bad form when Cazorla got injured. We'd been overrun at Spurs even with Caz and Coq in midfield then Coq got injured in the WBA game and we lost to them with a Flamini-Caz midfield. Followed that with a 1-1 draw with Norwich (Ramsey game back in this game but played on the right). Then we won 5 games of 6 before we hit this current poor spell. And we have to remember we didn't have Sanchez then either. In his first 2 games back in midfield Ramsey righted the ship for us , then we survived Christmas but really there is only so long we could get away with having Flamini in midfield and missing Sanchez.

I think criticisms of Ramsey over this period have been greatly exaggerated. Even alongside Flamini who is widely accepted as not very good he managed to help us keep a fairly consistent level over this period. Especially considering the loss of Sanchez for that time and the busier winter schedule.

The big crime here is that we got away with it until the transfer window and then Wenger didn't get the reinforcement we required. Instead he again signs players for a year and a halfs time. Well thats a strategy that can work but only if you do it a year and half before the crisis, not in the middle of it. We were 2 weeks into the window when we played Liverpool. We could easily have had a player in who was better than Flamini by then. Instead we are still playing Flamini week in, week out while we sit here and debate which one of 2 top players is better beside him.

dreamlord

IIRC, there was something wrong with Cazorla in the game against Tottenham. Didn't he get subbed at HT? And Norwich was of course where he ended up 'playing on one leg' to quote Wenger.

Ramsey's been okay. No where close to what people thought he would perform - Ramsey central gonna win us the league, Wenger's a fool for shifting him to the right etc etc.

Mirth

Yeah, the Spurs and Norwich games are not a representative sample particularly considering our form for the 12 month prior before that with Cazorla and Coquelin in the middle.

Qwiss

Mirth wrote:
Yeah, the Spurs and Norwich games are not a representative sample particularly considering our form for the 12 month prior before that with Cazorla and Coquelin in the middle.

Yes apart from the Spurs game though the ones I chose where the ones where Cazorla had to play with Flamini. The Spurs game was just another case of us failing against a more physical, athletic midfield.

jones

dreamlord wrote:
IIRC, there was something wrong with Cazorla in the game against Tottenham. Didn't he get subbed at HT?

Yeah, he was dizzy after just a couple minutes on the pitch, we were basically playing the first half with ten men.

Bold Tone

MistaT wrote:
Alright, time to put a poll to use - assuming we start with Ozil (AM) and Coquelin (DM), and Mertesacker/Koscielny, who do you want to start at "CM" next season?

Cazorla - our watered down one part Xavi, one part Iniesta - as a deep lying playmaker?

or

Ramsey - our gungho, going to run his ass off - box to box midfielder?

Shady wrote:
I don't see them as competing for the same position. More like Ozil vs Ramsey for the CAM spot, with the other playing right wing.

We should get someone in to compete with Cazorla for the DLP role though.

Mello wrote:
Absolutely Ramsey. We just need wide players who are good on the ball to make up for Santi's absence and we'll be gold.

Tim-bob wrote:
Vidal.

Claudius wrote:
Vidal, Ramsey and Coquelin to rotate behind Ozil. I need to see a team with Vidal and Sanchez. I want opposition players to be afraid of that intensity

arsedoc md wrote:
ramsey seems to be the right answer to this question but i think cazorla plays a sort of sidekick to ozil so ozil can make the whole team tick. ramsey in the centre brings out the best in ramsey. Just a subtlely complicated situation. If the coq can develop his passing a bit more soon, then we can live without cazorla.

yuv wrote:
yeah, pretty funny to poll that - who knows? we couldn't even agree on what had already happened through an entire season... generally (or ideally) I would like it to be Ramsey, but just as now it depends on what is actually performed - so it will be at the start of next season. I do like the Vidal answer, but I don't think it would be Coq-Vidal-Oz in that case. Also the Wilshere option can't be ignored. But I would not be shocked if we're still doing what we did recently, though we all know it's not the long term route.

Burnwinter wrote:
Yeah, it's a bit of a silly poll. The two players don't need to occupy the same position and both have their merits.

Rex wrote:
Nah. He is a central mid.

Armor wrote:
I tend to agree but its an interesting possibility imo. Ramsey seems to be turning more into a final 3rd player rather than a middle 3rd player every year.

Shinda wrote:
Ramsey will never be a effective CM without an Arteta type player next him.

Page 1, folks.
All from page 1, May 2015.
Unsurprisingly, nobody has changed their opinion.

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