Starting "CM" next season - Ramsey vs Cazorla?: Page 26 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Starting "CM" next season - Ramsey vs Cazorla?

Claudius

MistaT wrote:
Klaus wrote:
I think Arteta will be alright. It's the idea that Wenger will continue with Arteta-Cazorla that really worries me.

I literally shuddered reading this.

you gon' stay shuddering, son. Wenger has some tricks up his sleeve this season. we still have guys like Flamini and Bielik to start.

yuv

Arteta-Cazorla is not a bad idea vs lesser teams. It's only a problem when we face the better teams. And yes, he will use it - question is will he also make that distinction (I tend to think he will, but who knows?).

Gazza M

yuv wrote:
Arteta-Cazorla is not a bad idea vs lesser teams. It's only a problem when we face the better teams. And yes, he will use it - question is will he also make that distinction (I tend to think he will, but who knows?).

5-6 years ago maybe, but not in today's premier league. every team aside from out-of-form relegation candidates would chase that midfield out of the stadium imo.

Rex

Case in point is Zagreb; even that team had a field day with those two in the middle.

Qwiss

I don't get why people seem to think not having a DM is fine against lesser teams. Having Coquelin has made us so much more stable vs poor teams, we used to be so easy to counter attack. Having a midfield of Cazorla and Arteta is asking from trouble vs pretty much everyone.

Gunner89

Cazorla for me's been pretty poor bar one-two games. Again it's not his fault completely playing in that deeper position.

It baffles me that Ramsey doesn't play centrally. When he clearly adds goals from CM which is something we've completely been poor at in home games. Wenger just needs to go. From complete negligence in the summer to playing players out of position to treating the cl games like carling cup matches. I've had enough of him and his excuses and his complete arrogance.

JazzG

Cazorla is one of those guys who can have a shit game and then have a few nice touches and people think he's been alright. Guy offers no control for our midfield, complete negligence by Wenger to still be relying on him there. Yesterday again showed him and Coq don't do well against teams at home. Apart from a few away games those two don't play as well as people think.

evoh

Issue is that Ramsey is in ponderous multiple touch mode again which is shit for us in CM for getting the ball played dynamically. Santi was average yesterday but he didn't throw the ball in his net.

Qwiss

I think we need to stop focussing on Ramsey vs Cazorla and ask does Ozil deserve to be in midfield ahead of either of them on current form?

evoh

Not a chance, though Ramsey has hardly set it on fire. Cazorla definitely deserves to play the 10 role as he is doing the same shit Ozil is praised for. Though then we have the issue of playing the donkey oxlade on the RW which is a kick in the ball sack.

Qwiss

The right wing situation is baffling, Wenger obviously knew he'd play Walcott up front. So why didn't get a new winger?

Clrnc

Santi wasn't poor yesterday, Ozil and Ox was horrific.

You cannot say we didn't control the centre mid yesterday. Our problem was more of a lack of penetration from the wings. Every time we try to attack either side we lose the ball and get countered quickly.

The whole problem really stems from Wenger's training/tactics. The passes and moves are far too slow and predictable, its easy to cut out.

banduan

Qwiss! wrote:
The right wing situation is baffling, Wenger obviously knew he'd play Walcott up front. So why didn't get a new winger?

Because Ox and Campbell can play there. I can totally understand his reasoning there even if I can't accept his valuation.

What I can't comprehend is that knowing we're a Coquelin injury away from relying on two 34 year olds, one who has the legs but not the brains for DM and the other the reverse, Wenger proceeded not to get anyone. How long are we waiting for Bielik?

Kel Varnsen

JazzG wrote:
Cazorla is one of those guys who can have a shit game and then have a few nice touches and people think he's been alright. Guy offers no control for our midfield, complete negligence by Wenger to still be relying on him there. Yesterday again showed him and Coq don't do well against teams at home. Apart from a few away games those two don't play as well as people think.

Cazorla isn't a central midfielder. His body language is all wrong for a central midfielder who is supposed to control the pace of the game. As a central midfielder, you have to want the ball constantly and show that, so that the rest of the players know and trust you want the ball. Cazorla casuallly strolls around, without any real purpose.

Kel Varnsen

Qwiss! wrote:
The right wing situation is baffling, Wenger obviously knew he'd play Walcott up front. So why didn't get a new winger?

I said this all summer. We needed a right winger as much as we needed a striker.

Qwiss

Clrnc wrote:
Santi wasn't poor yesterday, Ozil and Ox was horrific.

I thought all 3 were pretty terrible.

Gazza M

Qwiss! wrote:
I think we need to stop focussing on Ramsey vs Cazorla and ask does Ozil deserve to be in midfield ahead of either of them on current form?

cazorla has been absolutely mediocre this season, dont know how more people arent on his case. absolutely ozil should be in the midfield 3 ahead of him, and imo has put in better performances this season. im a critic of ozil, but if the question is caz vs. oz, its not even a debate as to who brings more to the side, and is an actual difference maker

Doc

banduan wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
The right wing situation is baffling, Wenger obviously knew he'd play Walcott up front. So why didn't get a new winger?

Because Ox and Campbell can play there. I can totally understand his reasoning there even if I can't accept his valuation.

What I can't comprehend is that knowing we're a Coquelin injury away from relying on two 34 year olds, one who has the legs but not the brains for DM and the other the reverse, Wenger proceeded not to get anyone. How long are we waiting for Bielik?

At least its an improvement on when he sold Flamini, Gilberto & Diarra in one season and left us with Denilson!
Same shit different decade..... :doh:

Shady

Qwiss! wrote:
The right wing situation is baffling, Wenger obviously knew he'd play Walcott up front. So why didn't get a new winger?

Wilshere

yuv

Qwiss! wrote:
I think we need to stop focussing on Ramsey vs Cazorla and ask does Ozil deserve to be in midfield ahead of either of them on current form?

I agree with that. Not that I actually think Santi can do what Oz does - I doubt anyone can - But the current Ozil doesn't either, and he needs to be benched. Santi would actually play where he should (anyone notice yesterday the period when Santi stayed close to the box, while Ozil actually came deep to collect?), and Ramsey's energy&mileage would help. If that would make the real Ozil wake up, we get what we wanted. Other than that we'd have players playing in their preferred/natural role.

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