Players Out: Page 66 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Players Out

JazzG

mohan wrote:
I don't understand that. How can an agent force the move if the player does not want it?

From what I've read I think Ox is open to staying but not adamant that he will stay, the agent however is obviously advising him otherwise. Either telling him to hold out so he can get him a better contract or telling him he can get him a big money move to another club.

Agents will be agents, they will more often than not look at what is best for them rather than the player. Nowadays I get the impression many players don't really think much for themselves, just go with what their advisers/agents tell them.

MistaT

I think Bellerin is actually going to struggle in the new formation. His pace is his biggest asset, and it let him slingshot out of a FB position to catch up to / drive play. In the new formation where he plays higher up he'll be asked to receive the ball to his feet and to beat a man more often, not something he excels at. Also concerned by his complete lack of a left foot catching up to him and turning him into Gibbs, though that may be over-dramatic.

goon

Don't think that's true at all, I think the new formation gives him a far greater ability to break forward and join counters by virtue of the fact that he's got less defensive responsibility so can go all out. We saw evidence of this at the back end of last season, particularly against Chelsea in the cup final.

What he needs to do is adapt his game to be more effective when the build-up is slower. At the moment he's resorting to passing it back every time in a 1v1 situation but if he can develop a good understanding with someone, such as Ozil and can work on mastering those runs in behind he can be more effective in those situations too.

JazzG

MistaT wrote:
I think Bellerin is actually going to struggle in the new formation. His pace is his biggest asset, and it let him slingshot out of a FB position to catch up to / drive play. In the new formation where he plays higher up he'll be asked to receive the ball to his feet and to beat a man more often, not something he excels at. Also concerned by his complete lack of a left foot catching up to him and turning him into Gibbs, though that may be over-dramatic.

I agree, I don't think this wing back role suits him as well as it does Ox. Ox has the dribbling and power to get past players and while Bellerin is quicker he certainly isn't as comfortable 1v1. As a result he struggles more to get past players, the full back role is different where you will get a lot of the ball on the overlap but Bellerin won't get that with this current formation.

goon

Juventus and Newcastle apparently after Jack.

Jed

£35m? Snap their arm off.

Qwiss

JazzG wrote:
MistaT wrote:
I think Bellerin is actually going to struggle in the new formation. His pace is his biggest asset, and it let him slingshot out of a FB position to catch up to / drive play. In the new formation where he plays higher up he'll be asked to receive the ball to his feet and to beat a man more often, not something he excels at. Also concerned by his complete lack of a left foot catching up to him and turning him into Gibbs, though that may be over-dramatic.

I agree, I don't think this wing back role suits him as well as it does Ox. Ox has the dribbling and power to get past players and while Bellerin is quicker he certainly isn't as comfortable 1v1. As a result he struggles more to get past players, the full back role is different where you will get a lot of the ball on the overlap but Bellerin won't get that with this current formation.

Bellerin looked good in the wing back role towards the end of last season. Took him a couple of games to get into it but he found his rhythm eventually.

Ideally he and Ox would rotate but with Ox refusing to sign a contract I think its better to just sell him now, especially if there is £35m on the table.

Rex

Problem is that 35m doesn't seem to get you a replacement player as good as Chambo in this insane market.

est

We're likely losing Alexis for free, turning down £35m for Ox would not be very smart. Ideally, I'd keep him, but given the circumstances and the fact that we're going to have to do a lot of re-building next summer, I'd cut my losses with him now so we could already start replacing him. He's also very injury prone, so it's hardly guaranteed that he's going to give you a good season anyway.

Anzac

http://dailycannon.com/2017/08/report-welbeck-open-to-everton-move/

With Giroud supposedly happy to stay I'd not be surprised if any of the other forward options like Welbs, Walcott & Lucas were allowed to depart, particularly if AW is desperate to reduce the wage bill in order to sign another attacking midfielder.

Burnwinter

Welbeck is a good lad, but I'd suggest we could let him go without missing a step at this point.

Would be better to ship out Perez somehow first.

Anzac

Burnwinter wrote:
Welbeck is a good lad, but I'd suggest we could let him go without missing a step at this point.

Would be better to ship out Perez somehow first.

Agreed on both points, although I suspect that it depends on how determined AW is to add new signings, and how pressing the need to sell before he is able to buy. He may prefer to shift some players before others, but may not be in a position to resist moves for Welbeck or Ox ahead of the likes of Perez, Gibbs, Debuchy, Jenkins or Wilshere. I do wonder where Walcott fits in the picture.

Tam

Burnwinter wrote:
Welbeck is a good lad, but I'd suggest we could let him go without missing a step at this point.

Would be better to ship out Perez somehow first.

Agree with your first point.

Unless you mean in terms of keeping a happy player/squad, I don't agree with the second. I think Perez has shown he is clearly more of a threat and more creative in his short showings than anything Welbeck has given us. Perez is by far the better player based solely on ability.

Qwiss

Rex wrote:
Problem is that 35m doesn't seem to get you a replacement player as good as Chambo in this insane market.

I think it does. At least in terms of what I expect from him this season. He may develop into a top player but he's miles off it now and if he does get there he'll be gone anyway.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Maybe Nelson will replace Ox. He was awesome last night.

JazzG

Qwiss! wrote:
Bellerin looked good in the wing back role towards the end of last season. Took him a couple of games to get into it but he found his rhythm eventually.

Dunno, I can't say I'm convinced with Bellerin as a RWB. Personally had Ox signed his contract and Barca offered good money I'd have let him go if we are going to persist with three at the back.

Rex wrote:
Problem is that 35m doesn't seem to get you a replacement player as good as Chambo in this insane market.

True but can we afford to let Ox, Alexis & Ozil all go for free? At least the latter two have the quality to back up their demands, what the fuck has Ox ever done here to start messing us around when it comes to a new contract? He finished last season strongly but apart from that has a few good games every season.

Burnwinter wrote:
Welbeck is a good lad, but I'd suggest we could let him go without missing a step at this point.

Would be better to ship out Perez somehow first.

I think Welbeck despite his lack of goals has a role to play here. Tactically he is excellent and in some tough away games his pressing will come in very handy. I know many here like to ridicule him but look at the cup final against Chelsea. He helped stretch play and did not let their back three have easy possession and pass the ball out. Chelsea's play is heavily based on automations (i.e. pre planned passing routines) and he played a role in disrupting that. He was Fergie's go to man in a lot of tough away games and rarely let him down. For example when we play Man Utd away I'd like to see him play and man mark Matic and watch Man Utd's game fall to pieces. Fergie had success using that tactic against Mourinho's team. In the home games play on the front foot but away games personally we need to focus more on disrupting the opposition.

Big Willie

JazzG wrote:
I think Welbeck despite his lack of goals has a role to play here. Tactically he is excellent and in some tough away games his pressing will come in very handy. I know many here like to ridicule him but look at the cup final against Chelsea. He helped stretch play and did not let their back three have easy possession and pass the ball out. Chelsea's play is heavily based on automations (i.e. pre planned passing routines) and he played a role in disrupting that. He was Fergie's go to man in a lot of tough away games and rarely let him down. For example when we play Man Utd away I'd like to see him play and man mark Matic and watch Man Utd's game fall to pieces. Fergie had success using that tactic against Mourinho's team. In the home games play on the front foot but away games personally we need to focus more on disrupting the opposition.

😆 😆 😆

I know what you mean, but I can't help but laugh.

banduan

We don't need a specific forward to man mark Matic or anyone. Any forward we have can play that role.

Clrnc

Honestly though, Welbeck is always a handful for defenders and is a big game player tactically.

Qwiss

Welbeck doesn't really do anything other players in the squad don't do better.

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