Players Out: Page 210 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Players Out

Klaus

jones wrote:
Cazorlas first and only season playing #10 he got 12 goals and 13 assists. Özil in his whole time at the club reached that kind of output once in his best season

But he was a better playmaker in each and every one of those seasons.

deardevil

jones wrote:
Klaus wrote:
We spent a club record fee on a playmaker the summer after we signed Cazorla for that role. Nothing to do with versatility; he just wasn't good enough to cut it there.

We wouldn't have signed him if we were successful with our pursuits of Higuain and Suarez. Saying that we spent a club record fee on a playmaker sounds like we intended to do it to fix anything when it was more or less coincidence we landed him. Also let's not forget this is the same management who thought not buying another striker early 2016 would be a good idea when it would have probably given us the league title, there's rarely rhyme or reason to what we did

Cazorlas first and only season playing #10 he got 12 goals and 13 assists. Özil in his whole time at the club reached that kind of output once in his best season

I think the fact that we went for Higuain and Suarez was proof that we wanted a big name striker. Failure to sign them meant signing another Welbeck to appease the fans. Then in 2016 we ended up with Lucas Perez. I don't think the club can be accused of not wanting a new striker, but if you can't land your main targets, then you either spend on players you know aren't good enough or you save your load. More often than not, the club's saved their load, for better or worse.

Bold Tone

Klaus wrote:
Muswell Hill Gooner wrote:
True he wasn't as good as Ozil at number 10 but, together with Coquelin, he plugged the hole we had in central midfield which helped us with the weekly grind of point accumulation versus premiership cannon fodder and that's why i specified CL qualification.

I really hated that midfield personally. Cazorla wasn't dynamic enough to play deep without help, so you had to put Coquelin in there to press like mad, but Coquelin in return was awful at just about everything else, so we tucked Ramsey in wide as some weird auxiliary winger to get someone who could play the ball forward, and that in return sacrificed our width. I have very few good memories of that Frankenstein creation. We should have just dipped into the market to replace Arteta the minute his knee gave in. He was the last really outstanding CM we had at the club.

I forgot about Ramsey on the left :gape:
That was a disaster!

deardevil

If we're gonna talk about Cazorla. That free kick at two nil down in the FA Cup final to end our drought, has to be one of the greatest moments in our history.

MuswellHillGooner

Klaus wrote:
jones wrote:
Cazorlas first and only season playing #10 he got 12 goals and 13 assists. Özil in his whole time at the club reached that kind of output once in his best season

But he was a better playmaker in each and every one of those seasons.

No arguments for me as Ozil_11 and Ramsey_16 were an amazing duo!

jones

Klaus wrote:
jones wrote:
Cazorlas first and only season playing #10 he got 12 goals and 13 assists. Özil in his whole time at the club reached that kind of output once in his best season

But he was a better playmaker in each and every one of those seasons.

See there's crazy Klaus talking again. Your posts are usually good to read but every now and then there's shit like this. Mods should fix this so that whenever you're off the meds again a different avatar shows up to warn the rest of us.

deardevil

The team broke down as soon as Cazorla became injured. Cazorla-Ozil-Sanchez was our route to greatness. Cazorla was a different playmaker to Ozil, especially as he was operating from deeper positions. It was a great axis for the short period that it existed.

Klaus

jones wrote:
Klaus wrote:
But he was a better playmaker in each and every one of those seasons.

See there's crazy Klaus talking again. Your posts are usually good to read but every now and then there's shit like this. Mods should fix this so that whenever you're off the meds again a different avatar shows up to warn the rest of us.

You have this weird obsession with everything that is Spanish. You're a good sport Jones, but then you go and do something insane, like calling Denis Suarez the most technically accomplished player we have. I mean he did manage to get a few short passes to bounce off his shin in the 78 minutes he played while he was here, but I don't think it was on purpose so I refuse to count it as a skill.

QuincyAbeyie

Since Cazorla was put on CM because Özil was the better playmaker and not because it was the only way to field our two best players, I'm guessing that's why Ramsey was put on the wing while Cazorla took his spot as well?

Denis Suarez has looked very good so far this season and scored today btw. I had no opinion of him before he was here, but establishing one based on 78 minutes isn't like you, Klaus.

Klaus

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Since Cazorla was put on CM because Özil was the better playmaker and not because it was the o ly way to field our two best players, I'm guessing that's why Ramsey was put on the wing while Cazorla took his spot as well?

Yes, because since one thing happened another thing that also happened at a different time on a different position must be for the exactly same reason. Groundbreaking logic, Quincy.

MuswellHillGooner

mdgoonah41 wrote:
that santi performance against man city a few years ago was one of the best individual performances post-invincibles. on his day, he was absolutely unreal

@Santi :drool:

Coquelin get's shat upon by a lot of our own supporters but, as a player without the silky skills, i loved the fire and brimstone he brought to the team as Cazorla's partner in 2014/2015. As Henry called him "The Police Officer".

QuincyAbeyie

Klaus wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Since Cazorla was put on CM because Özil was the better playmaker and not because it was the o ly way to field our two best players, I'm guessing that's why Ramsey was put on the wing while Cazorla took his spot as well?

Yes, because since one thing happened another thing that also happened at a different time on a different position must be for the exactly same reason. Groundbreaking logic, Quincy.

About as groundbreaking as applying it just when convenient, I suppose. But sure, Auba was moved because Emery is stupid (and Wenger before him), Ramsey was moved because he was needed elsewhere, but Cazorla, our PotY, was moved because he wasn't good enough.

Klaus

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Yes, because since one thing happened another thing that also happened at a different time on a different position must be for the exactly same reason. Groundbreaking logic, Quincy.

About as groundbreaking as applying it just when convenient, I suppose.

But I didn't. I gave my view as to why Cazorla wasn't good enough to be used as a playmaker and it wasn't just "Wenger knows best, so every decision he ever made has equal merit". You're making shit up when it suits you because you're busy trying to pick logical flaws in people's posts. You do this routine all the time and it's getting a wee bit boring.

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
But sure, Auba was moved because Emery is stupid (and Wenger before him), Ramsey was moved because he was needed elsewhere, but Cazorla, our PotY, was moved because he wasn't good enough.

He was moved to the flank before we even signed Özil.

QuincyAbeyie

Okay. 😆

Klaus

Either way, not to drag the thread off topic, but Chiellini just partly ruptured his ACL in training and will be missing the next 5-6 months. Word is that Juve are desperately looking for a replacement before the window shuts. We should offer them a cutrate price for Mustafi! It's the least we can do after they took Ramsey for free and tried to dump Rugani on us.

QuincyAbeyie

They can take him, but I'm not willing to go any lower than £0.

MuswellHillGooner

I think Ramsey on flank was Wenger wanting to give him as much game time as possible to help his rehabilitation as he never got dropped however awful he was. I vaguely remember a "Ramsey is a dud" thread here.
It worked as Ramsey had his best season, statistically, the first year he was partnered with Ozil in the middle.
Reminded of this troll tweet which had non-gooners frothing at the mouth 😆

jones

Klaus wrote:
jones wrote:
See there's crazy Klaus talking again. Your posts are usually good to read but every now and then there's shit like this. Mods should fix this so that whenever you're off the meds again a different avatar shows up to warn the rest of us.

You have this weird obsession with everything that is Spanish. You're a good sport Jones, but then you go and do something insane, like calling Denis Suarez the most technically accomplished player we have. I mean he did manage to get a few short passes to bounce off his shin in the 78 minutes he played while he was here, but I don't think it was on purpose so I refuse to count it as a skill.

I'm not sure I'm obsessed. I used to follow La Liga a lot couple years back because in my opinion it's the best league in the world which is why I know about most players there. I'll gladly call a Spaniard shit when they are, like Morata for example

Suarez has class technique, his injury and time here dont change that. Not sure when or where I said that but I assume the point was more to comment on how little technically accomplished players we have mostly

Klaus

I was just pulling your leg Jonesy. I'm allowed to do that when I'm off my meds.

jones

Ah sorry I missed that because you still have that Charlie Sheen looking bloke as your avatar.

« Previous Page Next Page »