Mesut coming out of his shell?: Page 65 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Mesut coming out of his shell?

goon

He'll rack up the numbers this season. He already has 3 in his 6 games in the league.

goon

Clrnc wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
This excuse is bullshit. We score more than enough for him to be doing much better. Fabregas managed more than twice as many assists last season in a team that scored only 2 goals more than us for instance. A lot of players managed more assists in teams that scored far less.

Don't even have to look till Fabregas.

Santi has created more chances, had more assists and also more goals than him since he joined us.

Willing to bet almost all of Santi's goals were penalties, and even then he's only scored 2 more.

He also has just 3 assists more than Mesut despite playing 1700 minutes more, or approximately 19 games.

ElGeniodeOviedo

A No. 10 doesn't necessarily need to be a pass first playmaker. Maradona was a 10.

It would require some reconstructing of our formation and footballing philosophy, but it's eminently doable. I would argue that Alexis largely played as a number 10 for his goal-scoring spree last season.

ElGeniodeOviedo

otfgoon wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
Don't even have to look till Fabregas.

Santi has created more chances, had more assists and also more goals than him since he joined us.

Willing to bet almost all of Santi's goals were penalties, and even then he's only scored 2 more.

He also has just 3 assists more than Mesut despite playing 1700 minutes more, or approximately 19 games.

Not sure where you're pulling your stats but at least as far as BPL games, I'm somewhat skeptical of the above claim (see comparative asisist ratios here http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2015-16/sep/300915-santi-cazorla-king-of-assists.html). It's possible that European games compensate for this, but I actually compared both players goals+assists per game ratio (caveat: per WhoScored which might be slightly imprecise) and they were very similar. Although it is possible that a greater gap emerges in goals+assists ratio per minute due to Ozil's greater likelihood to be subbed off, I'll have to check that

Cazorla only started taking penalties regularly last season iirc, for what it's worth I also recall Ozil taking at least one penalty for us (the miss vs Bayern) so it's possible at least a few of his goals may be penalties as well.

MistaT

Santi looks even less likely to score (no penalties) than Ozil these days 😆

ElGeniodeOviedo

MistaT wrote:
Santi looks even less likely to score (no penalties) than Ozil these days 😆

True, and I don't think Cazorla is the solution to Ozil's struggles either as his legs are pretty much gone. However, I just don't think the last two years have justified the Ozil purchase given the relative production histories of the two, their respective ages and the cost of the transfer.

goon

I pulled the stats from the same website

Ozil has played precisely 4487 mins has racked up 19 assists.
Santi has played 6195 mins in the same period has has racked up 21 assists.

Even if you include Santi's first season which is what I assume they did, then it's 9496 mins and 34 assists, which is an assist every 279 mins vs Ozil's assist every 236. Whatever way you spin it, Santi hasn't proven to be any more creative, even using the Premier League's measure.

goon

It's quite ironic that we were giving the media a hard time for not giving Mesut any credit despite being very good for us since his return from injury last year, and now that they've finally laid off him it's the fans that are getting on his back at every opportunity 😆

Biggus

Well they're running out of scapegoats to blame instead of Wenger, Flamini Welbeck Wilshere injured, Arteta Giroud dropped, Gunnersaurus better watch out his hugs and photo stats don't slip.

evoh

People didn't want ozil being called out for lazy, so it's good he isnt.

What they might want is some consistant performances and threat of a real attacking midfielder. You can't have a claimed world-class player who is deficient is major aspects of his role.

Shady

Ozil is one of the last players on this team that we need to worry about.

Bold Tone

I think the criticism of Ozil is because many feel, rightly or wrongly, he is playing within himself.
Take the last game, for example, where he was anonymous for 70 minutes and only started imposing himself on the game when we were 3-2 down.
He needs to realise this team depends on him a lot more than RM or Germany did as he is one of our two top players.
Although his natural game is to pass to players in a better position than him, he should only do that with Alexis, Cazorla and Ramsey.
Theo and Giroud mess up a lot of the build-up play so he should only look to them when the final ball is on.
When he was younger, he carried the ball more and that dribbling destabilised defences and won him a ton of free kicks when they tried to stop him.

Gazza M

he was definitely more aggressive in 09-10 for werder, but evolved into a very good pass first playmaker at real madrid because he was playing with ronaldo and benzema. don't know if he's capable of getting back to that early career style - i think that ozil is gone.

Biggus

Meatwad

Bold Tone wrote:
I think the criticism of Ozil is because many feel, rightly or wrongly, he is playing within himself.
Take the last game, for example, where he was anonymous for 70 minutes and only started imposing himself on the game when we were 3-2 down.
He needs to realise this team depends on him a lot more than RM or Germany did as he is one of our two top players.
Although his natural game is to pass to players in a better position than him, he should only do that with Alexis, Cazorla and Ramsey.
Theo and Giroud mess up a lot of the build-up play so he should only look to them when the final ball is on.
When he was younger, he carried the ball more and that dribbling destabilised defences and won him a ton of free kicks when they tried to stop him.

i wouldn't romanticize his time with germany and RM either because both sets of fans and media criticized the hell out him. probably more so than arsenal fans and the english media.

Sicario

Ozil is a magician, his best act is disappearing on the pitch.

Not a fan. He lacks courage and conviction.

Shady

The extremity of people's views of Ozil are a handy barometer to view the value of their opinions in general.

y va marquer

How's that then?

Rohit

I think Ozil has been very good this season in general, on and off the ball when we attack. My biggest problem right now is that I don't see us finding any consistency with him playing in an advanced role just behind the striker, especially if one of the two midfielders behind him is Cazorla. Ozil is a forward. We will get the best out of him behind the striker but we may not get the best out of our current side with just two central midfielders.

Qwiss

Shady Shakes wrote:
The extremity of people's views of Ozil are a handy barometer to view the value of their opinions in general.

You could say the same about people who don't engage in the debate and keep making glib comments instead of backing up their opinions.

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