Mesut coming out of his shell?: Page 64 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Mesut coming out of his shell?

Clrnc

Sanchez is very hit and miss with his final pass. I don't think playing him in the number 10 would be ideal.

Klaus

Sanchez would be a catastrophe as a playmaker.

Özil was pathetic against Olympiacos but on the whole I think he's been our best attacking player this season (granted, it doesn't say all that much). The idea of playing Cazorla there instead is laughable.

Gunner89

As I've said he's not helped by the system and sometimes the players. Games like yesterday of course are no excuse though. I thought he fluffed a few of his passes where he might've usually put players through.

The notion of selling him however is IMO unthinkable at this moment. There's simply no other midfielder who creates nearly as many chances.

Cazorla's turning 31. He is only likely to decline. Ramsey's passing is hit and miss. Wilshere's never created much or had many assists. Nor is he reliably fit.

Biggus

Klaus wrote:
Sanchez would be a catastrophe as a playmaker.

Özil was pathetic against Olympiacos but on the whole I think he's been our best attacking player this season (granted, it doesn't say all that much). The idea of playing Cazorla there instead is laughable.

I'm sick of you criticising Ozil Klaus- Just fuck off!

I am Arsenal Till I Die

evoh wrote:
Coombs wrote:
Was funny when we went down to the 10 men the other day Ozil dropped into the holding role and actually looked pretty darn good. Remember a few posters on here pointing it out.

Sanchez is a great player, but I don't think many (or any) top coaches would play him through the middle. He's going to benefit from a functioning team like anyone else, and this idea that you just stick the player that's been scoring in the center and hope he can win you the game won't get us anywhere.

Chile's manager does just that, and they have won an international competition. He is a fantastic dynamic 10 and not every 10 needs to come deep into midfield to pick up the ball. He can play the role by dropping into the space between the defenders and midfield and pretty much staying there and pressing on.

I can't think of any other #10 in the premier league that does this better than Ozil. His movement between the lines is what Wenger would call top top quality.

The biggest reason Ozil comes deep to collect the ball is because our transition is extremely poor and inconsistent. One moment we will look like the old Arsenal - Theo's goal against Leicester (move started by Ozil, mind) and the next moment we look like a pub team devoid of ideas. This is also the reason Alexis is usually receiving the ball near the halfway line.

So instead of selling/benching/playing Ozil on the wing, maybe it would be wiser to sort out our midfield base and play to our actual strengths. Or as Gurgen said -

Maybe we should consider getting a defender who can play the ball out of defence, instead of sacrificing one of the CM positions for a midget who can pass the ball 20 yards? That's another way to solve the problem. I yearn for the days of Frank de Boer at CB, when 'defensive' midfielders were there to win the ball back, not take the ball 5 yards from their own box and start an attack.

[font=Source Sans Pro]From the little I've seen of United this year, Blind does this to perfection. [/font]

Biggus

You know under a proper manager and proper system Ozil could perform a role much like Beckham did, he has the same range of vision and passing.

Lukazan

Ozil doesn't quite have the range Beckham did.

Completely different players.

I am Arsenal Till I Die

From my vague memory of Beckham, I don't Ozil's skillsets are similar to that of Beckham's.

But I largely agree. Under a proper manager and a better system he'd be twice the player he is for us.

goon

You guys are hilarious, just a few pages ago we were raving about him being brilliant in 2015 and him being POTY and a few games later he's a problem, being misused, should be sold, converted into Beckham etc 😆

evoh

If you have no questions for a player in ozils position getting less then 10 goals a season then I am worried. Create as much a you like, if that is the only threat then people will shut the options down and know he won't bother with scoring.

goon

Who said anything about not having questions? There's a big difference between saying he needs to score more or generally do more in big/tight games and the stuff being said on here since the game on Tuesday.

Qwiss

evoh wrote:
If you have no questions for a player in ozils position getting less then 10 goals a season then I am worried. Create as much a you like, if that is the only threat then people will shut the options down and know he won't bother with scoring.

Nevermind the 10 goals he can barely manage 10 assists. I wouldn't mind his lack of goals at all if had 25 assists a season.

Meatwad

passy mcnoscore.

Coombs

You don't get assists when nobody converts their chances. The system is rotten, it's not even any use blaming any of the usual suspects anymore. Ozil, Ramsey, Giroud, Gibbs, Per, Flamini, whichever GK...

A system isn't just about formations, either. I don't think that simply playing this player or that player here or there is going to change a damn thing. It might help to put Ramsey back in the middle, and rotate between Caz and Ozil, but unless there is a new manager we're going to be narrow as fuck, transition too slowly, play the ball sideways to look for an opening, lose possession, and get hit on the counter. Also, we aren't suddenly going to be effective in attacking or defending set pieces.

Qwiss

Coombs wrote:
You don't get assists when nobody converts their chances.

This excuse is bullshit. We score more than enough for him to be doing much better. Fabregas managed more than twice as many assists last season in a team that scored only 2 goals more than us for instance. A lot of players managed more assists in teams that scored far less.

Biggus

Anyway its immaterial, he'll be off as soon as his contract is up he won't put up with this shit.

Klaus

He'll be off in the summer, and Alexis will follow him out the door in another year. People can debate Özil's usefulness in a flawed team, but the bottom line is that he can easily find a better club than Arsenal if we can't convince him that we're an ambitious club.

And yes, there will always be good players out there who want to come here, but if you can't retain them it doesn't matter. You will quickly find yourself back in the same demoralising boom-burst cycle where key players keep leaving, and the only constants in the team are the guys who aren't good enough for a better club to pursue them.

Clrnc

Qwiss! wrote:
Coombs wrote:
You don't get assists when nobody converts their chances.

This excuse is bullshit. We score more than enough for him to be doing much better. Fabregas managed more than twice as many assists last season in a team that scored only 2 goals more than us for instance. A lot of players managed more assists in teams that scored far less.

Don't even have to look till Fabregas.

Santi has created more chances, had more assists and also more goals than him since he joined us.

Biggus

Lukazan wrote:
Ozil doesn't quite have the range Beckham did.

Completely different players.

I Am Arsenal Till I Die wrote:
From my vague memory of Beckham, I don't Ozil's skillsets are similar to that of Beckham's.

But I largely agree. Under a proper manager and a better system he'd be twice the player he is for us.

Yes of course no two players are the same, I'm just saying that I see him in more of a Beckham role rather than what he does now, err whatever he's supposed to be doing now.

Coombs

Qwiss! wrote:
Coombs wrote:
You don't get assists when nobody converts their chances.

This excuse is bullshit.

It's a simple truth. And it's not so much a defense of Ozil as it is a condemnation of our system. When he leaves he'll likely rack up the numbers again.

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