Mesut coming out of his shell?: Page 35 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Mesut coming out of his shell?

Qwiss

Ricky1985 wrote:
Think it's difficult to make definitive statements either way.

Spurs wanted to win the tournament because they don't win fuck all, ever, and because this year it gets you into the Champions League for next season. Which is massive to be fair. The only reason they didn't play Kane against Fiorentina is because they had a Wembley final a couple of days later so that's not really much if an argument.

It was over 2 legs and he didn't start either so I think the argument is fine.

Rex

If there is one thing above all English clubs could, and should, learn from Spanish clubs, it is that throwing money at players is NOT a sustainable solution. The Spanish clubs outside the big 2 are comparatively much, much better at educating and developing players. They do what they do on a much smaller budget, in general.

jones

innervisionscm wrote:
The only people who think that La Liga is uncompetitive and behind the PL are those who don't actually watch Spanish football bar a Clasico or two. Spanish football is at a higher technical level and its teams are far better tactically constructed (which has resulted in its dominance of European competition in recent years). That the bottom half PL teams put up a bigger fight sometimes is a mark in favor of England, but there's no reason to blow that out of proportion. When it comes to playing great football the top six in Spain are a lot better than the top six in England.

If/when La Liga gets a more equitable TV deal the Premier League (and its obsession with work rate and goal scoring over technical ability and tactical intelligence) will fall further behind. Although in fairness, work permit rules and the ability to recruit young South American talent does wonders for La Liga.

This is spot on, people need to stop believing Sky ads. The bottom half EPL teams are indeed stronger than their Spanish counterparts because of the ridiculous TV deal, eg QPR getting more money than every team in Europe bar Real and Barca. However the top half in Spain is much better than in England, no amount of cherry picked quotes of players living in England will change that. The FA really makes it unnecessary hard for English teams to compete in Europe with the fixture congestion during Christmas or the second cup competition, but still, nobody who watches both leagues regularly thinks the EPL is better.

As someone who watches both leagues most weeks I'm fairly certain Sevilla would finish in the CL spots in England. I don't see how you can rate the current EL winner who's still in this year's competition while mounting a top four challenge in the league below fucking Southampton.

Klaus

jones wrote:
The bottom half EPL teams are indeed stronger than their Spanish counterparts because of the ridiculous TV deal, eg QPR getting more money than every team in Europe bar Real and Barca.

Only got themselves to blame to be fair. The tv money is about the same in Spain but Barca and Real take 90% of the pie with their individual tv deals. This is actually one (maybe the only) area where Premier League is a good role model.

jones

That's definitely an area in which La Liga should aim to imitate the EPL. But even if they distributed the TV money as evenly as in England I'm pretty sure it would still be a vastly inferior deal, let alone Italy or Germany.

Clrnc

Maybe over the course of the whole league campaign, Sevilla won't finish in the top 5 in England due to the physicality or whatever (moot point anyway because the English sides would also struggle with the technical ability of La Liga), but put them in a 2 legged tie and Sevilla will put teams like Southampton, Liverpool and Spurs away easily. How many times must we see how English sides struggle against Spanish side to come to this theory? It's been pretty obvious. Even United struggled against Sevilla when they played them few seasons ago, lost against Bilbao with a full strength side too mind you.

Jones put it perfectly.

Biggus

@ Jonesy- Why do you support Arsenal if you think La Liga is so great?

Klaus

Clrnc wrote:
Maybe over the course of the whole league campaign, Sevilla won't finish in the top 5 in England due to the physicality or whatever (moot point anyway because the English sides would also struggle with the technical ability of La Liga), but put them in a 2 legged tie and Sevilla will put teams like Southampton, Liverpool and Spurs away easily.

Maybe this season when things are looking up. What about next one? The thing with Spanish clubs is that they all lack continuity bar the top three. Sevilla is not that dissimilar from Southampton really. Or Newcastle a few seasons ago. One or two geat seasons and then it's back to midtable. Happened to Bilbao. It'll happen to Sevilla and Valencia too. They can't establish dominance because they can't build on what they've got in the long run. Whether United got knocked out of an Europa League they didn't even want to be in is neither here nor there. I agree that Spanish top football has more quality, but it accounts for very little.

Mirth

Biggus wrote:
@ Jonesy- Why do you support Arsenal if you think La Liga is so great?

Logical fallacy.

Rohit

Biggus wrote:
@ Jonesy- Why do you support Arsenal if you think La Liga is so great?

I don't even understand this question?

It is seriously not needed here.

Rohit

Best player on the pitch today and through the 120 minutes. He looked like he wanted it.

The pass for the first goal was top class. The others are just not on his wavelength at the moment else he would have had more assists today.

Gurgen

His set pieces were dangerous as fk too.

Ray

Two assists for Ozil. First one was class as was Sanchez's finish.

est

Should have had a couple more, if his team-mates could finish.

Pretty much a faultless performance from Özil. I think the first mistake he made came at the start of the extra time, that's how good he was.

Clrnc

Klaus wrote:
Maybe this season when things are looking up. What about next one? The thing with Spanish clubs is that they all lack continuity bar the top three. Sevilla is not that dissimilar from Southampton really. Or Newcastle a few seasons ago. One or two geat seasons and then it's back to midtable. Happened to Bilbao. It'll happen to Sevilla and Valencia too. They can't establish dominance because they can't build on what they've got in the long run. Whether United got knocked out of an Europa League they didn't even want to be in is neither here nor there. I agree that Spanish top football has more quality, but it accounts for very little.

I agree with that for the most part, but Sevilla over the last decade has always been one of the top teams bar the obvious 2. Not surprising they won the UEL thrice and is looking to win it again, no mean feat mind you no matter how much you despise the competition. The lack of continuity part is mostly down to the awful prize money distribution in La Liga. With Valencia now being dirt rich, expect La Liga to be even stronger next season.

Re Ozil: Another great match for him. Different class.

I wonder if we can train his shooting boots on, because we will be staring at a quite complete player if he has that killer instinct in front of goals. Always drags his shots wide in good positions, which is ironically similar to Welbeck.

flobaba

Playing like I expect him to now.

Rohit

Holds onto the ball under pressure so much better now. He has added a lot of strength, surprised a few times today.

Mirth

Also his stamina has seriously improved, at Madrid and in his first few months with us, he'd always be subbed off after 70 mins.

JazzG

His shooting was a bit off today but general play was very good again today

Anzac

His shooting is as poor as most of our ball players - all of them could do with some intense work on their finishing.

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