News Thread 2015: Page 167 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

News Thread 2015

jones

I reckon this compulsion to repeatedly post in here calling a number of people who you're regularly interacting with (even if it's just on a forum) "insecure" or "deluded" can be classified as a mental illness too. The regularity and severity with which you condemn all faithful is ironically fairly reminiscent of the inquisitors and jihadists which you enlightened lot so despise.

Qwiss

Bit of related graffiti done by some arsehole gets fixed by some nice person.

Burnwinter

Banksy, you've done it again!

arsedocmd

haha. selfie during plane hijack.

Gurgen

Caught up on some Belgian newspaper reading this weekend and it made me a very sad panda. Still the same hippies as 10 years ago writing that if only these poor boys had a job or a nice community centre to play in, all of this wouldn't have happened. Jesus (or Muhammad) wept. I remember that Hind Fraihi wrote a book warning about radicalisation in Molenbeek already in 2006 and the hippies in Belgium called her a racist islamophobe. And she is Moroccan ffs 😆

Political correctness in this country makes me sick.

Biggus

Burnwinter wrote:
Religion isn't a mental illness, for fuck's sake. What kind of mental illness requires instruction?

Read my post properly Burnsy and don't be disingenuous- I said sort of.
And plenty of aberrant behaviour and delusional thoughts can be taught and religion is the best example of this
Your previous post was excellent btw, the West is very much complicit in this latest upsurge in Islamism.

Burnwinter

All respect Biggus, I understand what you're saying but you should choose your rhetoric a bit more carefully. All conflating religion and mental illness does is demonstrate ignorance of both.

Biggus

jones wrote:
I reckon this compulsion to repeatedly post in here calling a number of people who you're regularly interacting with (even if it's just on a forum) "insecure" or "deluded" can be classified as a mental illness too. The regularity and severity with which you condemn all faithful is ironically fairly reminiscent of the inquisitors and jihadists which you enlightened lot so despise.

No it's not, because my form of delusion will never lead me to blow me and rest of you to bits.
People who believe in a heaven are fragile and insecure because of fear and delusion.
Religion grew out of a fear of death and it gives hope where there is nothing to hope for and fear where there is nothing to fear.
Religion is bunk at best and dangerous at worst.

Biggus

Burnwinter wrote:
All respect Biggus, I understand what you're saying but you should choose your rhetoric a bit more carefully. All conflating religion and mental illness does is demonstrate ignorance of both.

With the greatest respect Burnsy I know plenty about religion and mental illness.
Just because a delusion is mass it doesn't make it any less delusional.
I don't blame people for believing because (and this relates back to our discussion on voting) we are simple creatures, our brains evolved for survival not thinking, that was just a by product.

Burnwinter

Religious belief should not be referred to as delusion, for a number of reasons: it's clinically distinguished by scholars of mental disorder from delusion; it generally does not involve a sustained rejection of incontrovertible evidence against; it is not a reliable indicator of social or personal pathology.

The idea is to look at the world and avoid saying two things are the same when they're not, or that two words mean the same thing when they don't …

Jens

Biggus wrote:
No it's not, because my form of delusion will never lead me to blow me and rest of you to bits.
People who believe in a heaven are fragile and insecure because of fear and delusion.
Religion grew out of a fear of death and it gives hope where there is nothing to hope for and fear where there is nothing to fear.
Religion is bunk at best and dangerous at worst.

Yep I agree. All religions are cack and the more children growing up in secular homes and being allowed to figure out life for themselves the better the world will be.

Coombs

There's no such thing as "figuring out life" for yourself, though. There are no societal vacuums, there is not way to "stay out of it" or "mind one's own business" or any other such neat little nooks where there is no influence, no cultural pressure, no codified value system to work within or fight against.

It's all far too entwined, to use a Burnsyism, to pretend to be able to separate it. Hell, secularism, atheism, agnosticism...heathens, pagans, fire worshipers...its all part of the structuring of social relations, of human networks that are bound together by spirit, the capacity for life itself. You can't just switch that off.

Burnwinter

@[deleted]

I'm not a religious believer and I'm as interested in scientific knowledge and in reasoning about how to better "the human condition" as anyone.

The Enlightenment, the scientific method and worldview, secular humanism and individual freedoms are all great things, but Europeans do need to engage in thorough, critical self-reflection about their historical progress.

Just keep one thing in mind: in living memory, Europe stood in ruins in the aftermath of contention between great powers that witnessed some of the worst bloodshed and worst atrocities in recorded history, all carried out by Europeans against Europeans. And when it comes to the red in Europe's ledger, that war's just the tip of the iceberg.

When you look at how things stand today it's hard to have complete faith that they won't go and do it all again some day, somehow.

Qwiss

Burnwinter wrote:
but Europeans do need to engage in thorough, critical self-reflection about their historical progress.

Elaborate on this, its rather vague.

Burnwinter

Basically, don't go around telling the rest of the world to "get civilised" when you* all bombed, killed, gassed and burnt the fuck out of each other in living memory. And before that spent centuries pillaging every corner of the globe.

I realise it wasn't every nation

Qwiss

No it wasn't every nation, nor was anyone here even born nevermind involved, nor did anyone tell the rest of the world to "get civilised".

Burnwinter

No, but it was most of them, no, but I'm guessing many of us has a relative who was, and yes, Europe certainly has—and still does in editorials and columns every single day.

Look I just clicked on the Speccie and here you go, don't even need to read it, the name and the title are enough:

http://life.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/fear-of-the-fearful/

The point's clear enough: the cultural superiority Europe accords itself on account of traditions of secularism and free thought needs to be considered with caution, because the historical record doesn't stack up too well at all.

arsedocmd

I think a recent example might work here....michelle bachmann just invoked terms like end of western civilisation and nuclear jihad and things like that after the Brussels attack which killed 28 people(?) . Just the next day we saw images of Radovan Karadzic smartly dressed in a suit charged with killing 8000 muslims in a genocide.
I think it's pretty easy to play into the insecurities and paranoia of people and it's perfectly played on by "leaders" on both sides isn't it?

Qwiss

Burnwinter wrote:
No, but it was most of them, no, but I'm guessing many of us has a relative who was, and yes, Europe certainly has—and still does in editorials and columns every single day.

Look I just clicked on the Speccie and here you go, don't even need to read it, the name and the title are enough:

http://life.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/fear-of-the-fearful/

The point's clear enough: the cultural superiority Europe accords itself on account of traditions of secularism and free thought needs to be considered with caution, because the historical record doesn't stack up too well at all.

Well again I think you're spreading your net a little wide here although I think I can see some of what you are alluding to. Frances Burka ban I suppose would be an example of what you are trying to get at maybe?

Burnwinter

Sarkozy's burka ban's a pretty good example.

Pick out a defensibly neutral, arbitrary rule that only affects one group of people, a minority of a minority, and present it as a civic measure. The rule tramples on the internal process of change around the wearing of stricter dress within Islamic communities and gratifies non-Muslim chauvinists who envisage themselves as the liberators of Muslim women.

The Swiss minaret ban's another example.

I'm not spreading my net that wide, far as I can see—I'm just saying the briefest look at history shows the fallibility of Europe's great nations, including the secular culture.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brussels-isis-terrorism-molenbeek-attacks-text-messages-muslim-youths-fight-westerners-a6957601.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/400-fascist-protesters-in-brussels-square-confronted-and-intimidated-muslim-women-a6956196.html

These sorts of stories together should be a real worry to people. Dumb kids on both sides are getting set up.

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