It is, but neither Wilshere nor Ramsey are there yet, and until they get there we certainly need a more dedicated defensive midfielder IMO. One of the reasons why those two should actually play in central midfield; they are not magically going to learn the tactical and defensive aspects of playing in central midfield by playing on the flank.

Response was to Klaus.

Tactics, I don't know if you saw the game last night, but Real Madrid's midfield was open enough to drive a bus through it all night. That's what a James and Isco midfield ahead of Kroos gets you.

Juve, on the other hand, had Marchisio, Vidal and Pogba holding Pirlo's hand defensively all night, and they were very solid throughout.

Tactics wrote:

Arteta always played with more defensive partners before joining us, Pirlo always played with more defensive partners before Milan, Schweingsteiger always played with more defensive partners before Van Gaal's reign at Bayern, Kroos always played with more defensive partners before signing for Real etc etc So what does that prove?

Not to mention Xabi Alonso, who was deemed to weak to be a defensive midfielder in England but then went to Real Madrid and bossed shit up. And then he went to Bayern in the twilight of his career and tore the entire Bundesliga a new arsehole.

As has been said before, it is a lot easier to dominate in Spain playing for Real Madrid, and it is a lot easier to dominate in Germany full stop, but especially playing for Bayern.

Rex wrote:

Tactics, I don't know if you saw the game last night, but Real Madrid's midfield was open enough to drive a bus through it all night. That's what a James and Isco midfield ahead of Kroos gets you.

Juve, on the other hand, had Marchisio, Vidal and Pogba holding Pirlo's hand defensively all night, and they were very solid throughout.

I saw it differently, Juve were outclassed in the 1st half but Real failed to make their dominance count (should have been atleast 2-0 before half time IMO and they got lucky Modric wasn't playing). 

I think last night again highlighted that the most important quality for the deepest midfielder to have is passing ability. In the 1st half Kroos was pinging long passes left, right and centre and Real could get the ball into the right areas (from where they could get dangerous), Pirlo on the other hand misplaced almost every attempted (long) forward pass and Juve really struggled going forward. Bonucci and Chiellini made things worse by aimlessly hoofing every single pass they received. Pirlo got much better into the game in the 2nd half and their attacking game got unsurprisingly better.

It actually reminded me of our game against Swansea the other day when they let our CBs and Coquelin free knowing they were not going to hurt them and it helped them gain numerical advantage over our ball players (therefore relatively easy to defend). Ozil had to constantly drop very deep to get on the ball, which was exactly what Swansea wanted because the deeper Ozil played, the less likely he'll hurt them. It was only after we got Ramsey in midfield that we started advancing play much better.

I think there is this general perception among fans that the deepest midfielder has to be a defensive God, but it's not a coincidence that more and more managers are going for ball players.

Atletico are seen as probably the best defensive team in Europe but they only have 1 DM in their squad (Suarez) and he's mainly a sub. We saw them line up recently with a midfield of Koke-Tiago in what I'd say was their biggest home game of the season - CL quarter final home match vs Madrid.

I remember when Liverpool switched Gerrard to the holding role last season, I predicted it was for the better. They got much better in getting the ball forward into areas where the likes of Sturridge or Suarez could get dangerous. Suarez, Sterling, Sturridge etc don't rely on service per se (they can create their own chances), but they rely on the midfielders getting the ball into certain areas of the pitch and at the right moment from where they can create something or have a shot etc

Footballing teams generally play through the holding midfielder, therfore, it's very detrimental to your game going forward if you let your least talented player on the ball have it the most IMO. It is for this reason that I'm a big fan of having ball playing CMs at the base of midfield.

If Gundogan has fully recovered from his injury issues then it's a no brainer. Bring him in. We'll be struggling to find players of his quality, youth and experience. I'd happily settle for centre mid options next year of; Coquelin, Gundogan, Ramsey, Wilshere, Cazorla and maybe Arteta.

Yep, and I'd keep Arteta around too.