Segway wrote:According to Bild we have contacted Dortmund to start negotiations for Gundogan. Atl. Madrid have also made contact while United are hesitant because of his injury record.
According to Bild, or someone who says according to Bild? Can't find anything on their site.
[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]It’s claimed that Manchester United are hesitating on interest because they have worries over Gundogan’s injury record. SportBild say injury concerns are also causing hesitation with interest at Bayern Munich and Manchester City.[/font]
[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]SportBild say that Arsenal and Atletico Madrid have ‘already negotiated’ with the Gundogan family.[/font]
Would be a poor signing.
We need more of a defensive midfielder, what happens if coquelin is injured, or if his form is a flash in the pan?
FFS, our priorities are wrong if he is the only midfield signing. I do not mind Gundogan if he comes and a defensive midfielder is also signed. We can say goodbye to flaming, arteta, diaby, rosicky et al.
We simply must sign a defensive midfielder this summer
I'd actually say that Gundogan is playing in a position where we absolutely don't need another player.
Rex wrote:I'd actually say that Gundogan is playing in a position where we absolutely don't need another player.
While I agree with your general idea, the fact is, if Gundogan gets back to his form of two years ago, he is simply miles ahead of Cazorla as a deep lying playmaker.
But our absolute priority has to be a defensive midfielder, it is vital. People should not confuse Gundogan coming in, and our midfield will be sorted. We need someone of coquelin or above for DM.
If we sign Gundogan, which I don't think it will, it must surely be to make him play the Arteta role?
Only at Arsenal (or probably in the PL in general) do fans think a DM is an absolute must.
We just watched the CL semis, how many DMs were on show tonight? None.
Midfield play is mostly about good organisation, you can have a top class midfield with and without a specialist IMO.
That's not exactly fair though when you're looking at Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern's forwards. Their forwards alone drive teams back which is likely more important (defensively) than any single "defensive" player.
Put it this way, if you put me in Real Madrid's team as a DLP / DM would I hurt the team as much as if you put me in Arsenal's team?
@[deleted] Well, in the first match where Real Madrid weren't desperate to score like they were today, they used Ramos in midfield.
And Kroos is a great DM. DM doesn't mean "guy who just tackles and shields the defence". While Real have Kroos Barca have Busquets, they'd be lost without him.
Tactics wrote:Only at Arsenal (or probably in the PL in general) do fans think a DM is an absolute must.
Yep. People who have been banging on about defensive specialists feel vindicated now because of our resurgence since Coquelin (among others) came back into the side, ignoring that we led Premier League for six or seven months last season with a midfield consisting of Arteta, Ramsey and Özil.
What you really need is players who can handle transitions. There are valid concerns about his fitness, but you don't turn down players like Gündogan if they're available.
Quincy Abeyie wrote:@[deleted] Well, in the first match where Real Madrid weren't desperate to score like they were today, they used Ramos in midfield.
And Kroos is a great DM. DM doesn't mean "guy who just tackles and shields the defence". While Real have Kroos Barca have Busquets, they'd be lost without him.
Ramos played in the 1st leg because Modric got injured otherwise their midfield would have been Modris-Kroos-James.
Kroos now a DM? So what would you call Gundogan then, a defensive monster? Even Ramsey is more defensive minded and actually the better tackler and far more athletic. He played as a #10 for most of his career, this role is completely new to him.
a healthy gundogan is the right 'type' of player for us. we don't really need a better version of coq, we need a quality pivot player in the veratti/gundogan/modric/busquets mould i.e. a proper arteta upgrade. replace merte with a ball playing cb behind the pivot, and our attacking play improves immensely.
Klaus wrote:Tactics wrote:Only at Arsenal (or probably in the PL in general) do fans think a DM is an absolute must.
Yep. People who have been banging on about defensive specialists feel vindicated now because of our resurgence since Coquelin (among others) came back into the side, ignoring that we led Premier League for six or seven months last season with a midfield consisting of Arteta, Ramsey and Özil.
What you really need is players who can handle transitions. There are valid concerns about his fitness, but you don't turn down players like Gündogan if they're available.
PL fans generally love blood and thunder midfielders, don't think players like Arteta, Carrick (ridiculed for years) etc are really that appreciated. The fact that even a lot fans Man United fans rated Fletcher ahead of Carrick says it all. Carrick has always been on another level.
Tactics wrote:Quincy Abeyie wrote:@[deleted] Well, in the first match where Real Madrid weren't desperate to score like they were today, they used Ramos in midfield.
And Kroos is a great DM. DM doesn't mean "guy who just tackles and shields the defence". While Real have Kroos Barca have Busquets, they'd be lost without him.
Ramos played in the 1st leg because Modric got injured otherwise their midfield would have been Modris-Kroos-James.
Kroos now a DM? So what would you call Gundogan then, a defensive monster? Even Ramsey is more defensive minded and actually the better tackler and far more athletic. He played as a #10 for most of his career, this role is completely new to him.
Don't think tackling is the most important job of a DM. Kroos plays the same role as Arteta does for us, only better. I think Gundogan might be able to do the same.
A bunch of tiny, slow guys who can't put in a tackle or read a pass is asking for disaster. We won't manage against top tier teams with the group that led the league last season. That was also the season of our worst humiliations this side of the score I 8-2 to bring up. If you don't have burly tough-tackling types, then you require immense work rate and closing down from your players. I've just never seen Wenger consistently employ that type of swarming defense that Barca specialties in.
Tactics wrote:PL fans generally love blood and thunder midfielders, don't think players like Arteta, Carrick (ridiculed for years) etc are really that appreciated. The fact that even a lot fans Man United fans rated Fletcher ahead of Carrick says it all. Carrick has always been on another level.
In what world have Arteta and Carrick been ridiculed for years? If anything United fans have overrate Carrick and Arteta has been one of the most respected players in the league for nearly 10 years.
qs! wrote:Tactics wrote:PL fans generally love blood and thunder midfielders, don't think players like Arteta, Carrick (ridiculed for years) etc are really that appreciated. The fact that even a lot fans Man United fans rated Fletcher ahead of Carrick says it all. Carrick has always been on another level.
United fans rate Carrick now but IIRC even they called him one of their flop signings during his first few seasons there. He was benched for Fletcher and Hargreaves and if it weren't for persistent injuries to both of them he'd probably have been flogged.
It's one of those roles that only get praise when you're winning. When things go wrong, fans look for players they can blame and mids/attackers without goals/assists usually get picked out.
Claudius wrote:That was also the season of our worst humiliations this side of the score I 8-2 to bring up
8-2 burst your bubble but the tackling God, Coquelin played that game, for what it's worth.
The meltdown is going to be hilarious on here when we buy one of Gundogan/Schneiderlin for one reason or another. I'm pretty certain we're not buying Morgan, but there's a chance for Gundogan imo.
Re. DLP vs DM, I think it's quite telling when people in the PL are creaming themselves over average players like Coquelin and Schneiderlin, when in fact these two would be nowhere near making the squad for the top teams in Europe, or even subtop teams. No wonder the PL has fallen so far behind despite having the most money by a clear distance. I think it starts from the bottom, the league 1's, 2's, Championships, bottom of PL, etc. We're having to cope with shit Rugby teams like Stoke by having to play a liability like Per at the back, furthermore you need some big man up front otherwise it's impossible to play your way through Orcs. The English teams should try to play proper football with proper tactics, and actually use money on good players and not on crap like Fletcher and Caroll. Otherwise it'll be near impossible reaching the rest of the Europe, as they're focusing more and more on tactics and technical superiority.
