The race for... 4th - 2014/2015 edition: Page 7 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The race for... 4th - 2014/2015 edition

flobaba

Plus Sanchez too

awooga83

The quality of the premier league has naively deteriorated this year. I heard a stat today that United's 19 points is the lowest tally for a 4th placed team after 12 games since 3 points started being given for a win.

To me that puts are position into perspective and why when the point is made about us only being 2 points from 4th I don't see it as an indication that things aren't really bad. Not to mention I don't think we should be looking at other sides to define what we can achieve, so them being poor shouldn't make us content. We can and probably will sneak into that famed top four but that shouldn't be held up as a triumph, rather as the minimum we should be aiming for and further evidence that someone else is needed to get us above that.

Patters

I never understand how so many argue that the quality of the league is falling by comparing points totals. I assume what you're really talking about is how weak (bar Chelsea) our competition is, but even then it doesn't reveal much. If teams from 8-20th get stronger that'd also do it. Not that there aren't valid reasons to believe the quality of the league is poorer but in terms of any statistical arguments, I'd say counting misplaced passes is going to be a better indicator of the quality dropping than noting that 2nd place only has 7 points.

Think for a few years now the lesser sides are making life a lot tougher for the top sides (especially in away games they used to be prepared to lose). Hopefully the big TV deal has evened things out more.

Klaus

Patters wrote:
I never understand how so many argue that the quality of the league is falling by comparing points totals. I assume what you're really talking about is how weak (bar Chelsea) our competition is, but even then it doesn't reveal much. If teams from 8-20th get stronger that'd also do it.

... Which is exactly what has happened. I agree. The television money has never been bigger than it is right now, and English clubs share the cake between themselves which means that the average wage just keeps increasing. This is why even relegation-threatened Premier League clubs are able to attract very good players from La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga. Every summer the total sum of transfer fees in the league rises exponentially compared to the previous year. Foreign investment helps too, of course, but they have that abroad too.

flobaba

The problem is most judge the quality of the league based on the results or quality of the top 4.

The league is pretty strong in general.

Ourselves, Liverpool, City and ManU all have different problems (from tactical to player loss/inadequate recruitment) which have resulted in us playing below our true levels.

Anzac

Klaus wrote:
Patters wrote:
I never understand how so many argue that the quality of the league is falling by comparing points totals. I assume what you're really talking about is how weak (bar Chelsea) our competition is, but even then it doesn't reveal much. If teams from 8-20th get stronger that'd also do it.

... Which is exactly what has happened. I agree. The television money has never been bigger than it is right now, and English clubs share the cake between themselves which means that the average wage just keeps increasing. This is why even relegation-threatened Premier League clubs are able to attract very good players from La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga. Every summer the total sum of transfer fees in the league rises exponentially compared to the previous year. Foreign investment helps too, of course, but they have that abroad too.

Even before the new TV deal clubs promoted to the PL earned more money than other than the Euro Elite, and that is only going to stay the case under FFP.
Saints spent about 70m in the summer & the likes of Hull & WHam are buying players we were looking at as our nextgen and playing them as starters.
The clubs that are struggling for consistency are those in UEFA other than CFC.

goon

The league is definitely stronger. Not enough to stop a good team winning most of their games as Chelsea are doing, but enough to ensure a team that's not quite right will struggle.

evoh

We have been utter garbage and are within an inch of 4th. Remember, we have been almost a dozen ooh talk behind it and come through to claim it. 4th is wenger's natural level and every squad he has will revert to it.

The real question is if you give a shit. We are done the line commercially and should be challenging for the title, another ride into best of the rest is boring as fuck and we should not be using that as a measuring stick anymore. I might even take us finishing outside of the CL places this year and losing played like Sanchez if it means we lose wenger and start on a new path. The club and fans need a new project to get behind as wenger's done his "austerity stint" and looks like a chimp spending £50m a ear to get the same outcome he got on a £10m budget.

Rex

I want Arsenal to finish as high up the table as possible every season, and this season is no exception. I don't think that league position will determine Wenger's future anyway, and I have never seen the logic behind the argument that it would be 'good for us' to finish 5th or lower.

Gazidis is not an idiot, and neither are most of our players. There must certainly be the same doubts among players and staff as are witnessed here, by pundits, and in the media. I think the best bet for change is Wenger losing the dressing room, giving Gazidis a chance to act. Wenger realizing he can't take the club further is unlikely, but not impossible. I think he came close last season, and we aren't doing any better.

flobaba

Regardless of how bad it gets, I think the possibility of an internal player mutiny is minimal. Wenger engenders a feeling of loyalty amongst most of his players. I'm sure most of them truly believe they owe him their careers, and he has them thinking how they are the ones failing him, and not the other way around.

Rex

There is no such relation to players like Podolski, Özil, Sanchez, Mertesacker, Monreal, Debuchy, Cazorla, Arteta, Campbell and probably a few more. Basically, that argument doesn't hold water with our senior, influential players.

flobaba

Podolski played in Cologne. Arsene bringing him here definitely upped his profile and promoted his career. Same with the likes of Mertesacker , Monreal, Debuchy, and even Cazorla, all players in middling to average football clubs with no guarantee of CL. Arteta's career was resurrected in his role as a holding Midfielder here. He is also Wenger's captain, so I assume his loyalty is firmly with the boss.

I've also mentioned elsewhere that I don't expect Sanchez to be leading any revolutions as the new boy.

And ozil? Puh-lease.

awooga83

I don't think teams like Arsenal, City, United and Liverpool have improved or stayed the same. Those teams in my view have deteriorated in the last year while the rest of the teams have been consistent. Maybe better able to take advantage of inefficient sides thus punishing more than in the past but I don't think that is down to an improvement in those teams. The close points spread of the teams from 4th to the bottom is an indication of that for me. I haven't come away from many games we have struggled in thinking that side has played outstanding and taken us on toe to toe. It is normally a case of amateur defending and limited chance creation with wasteful finishing. All flaws of us rather than by design of the other team.

Rex

The 'lesser' teams are without question a lot better than, say, 5 years ago. Even 3 years ago I reckon, but hey ho. You just have to look to the team squads to see that there are plenty of really good players in the league not playing in any of the traditional top 4 sides.

lorddulaarsenal

No team in England is top top quality

Biggus

The discussion about the standard of the league is neither here nor there, you can only beat what's put in front of you what others do or fail to do is beyond your control, and it's obvious that Wenger will once again fail- His speciality.

Kel Varnsen

Looks like it'll be between us, Spurs, Liverpool, Man U and Southampton. If we can get back our key players, we'll finish 4th. However, if our injury problems continue we could very well end up outside top four this year.

evoh

We will get 4th and wenger and gazidis will make out like it's some kind of achievement. That's the state of our shambolic club.

Kel Varnsen

More money might mean additional quality players. Wenger won't win anything, but maybe the next manager could do something with the players we have.

lorddulaarsenal

As garbo as our defence is if we can consistently field this

--------giroud
Alexis---ozil--Walcott
-----xxxx---Ramsey

We'll do ok. Desperately need another player to step up

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