Champions League 2014/15: Page 69 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Champions League 2014/15

Burnwinter

Obviously shonky sponsorship deals are fair game for UEFA. Apparently legal player transfers, by contrast, are the bedrock of FFP, and this one could be one of the only ways for Chelsea to get an extra £20m in the kitty.

Let's say Luiz was realistically a £30m player, obviously highly talented and committed but with consistency issues and not sure if he's a centre half or a DM.

Abramovich's unit, Millhouse Capital and the Qatar Investment Authority both have major exposure to oil production in a very bearish market. QIA dwarfs Abramovich, of course. Let's say they did a quiet energy derivatives deal on the side which their analysts privately agreed was worth a nett £30m on the forecasts to QIA, but which nevertheless assisted both investment groups by strengthening their corporate relations and spreading risk across their production operations.

As a consideration, QIA agree to fund the purchase of Luiz at £20m above market value.

Sure, it's conspiracist, but it sounds fairly plausible to me. And £50m for Luiz is a fucking weird fee.

banduan

If I was a betting man I'd put me money on Manc's Chevy deal being dodge.

jones

That's a nice story Burns and I'd like to believe it but given the figures QIA usually operate with I don't think they'd risk their relations with Western governing bodies such as UEFA to go south over a petty amount such as 30m.

As you said yourself, Qatar operates on a completely different level to Abramovich which makes it hard to find anything that the latter could offer behind closed doors that they'd find interest in. We can't be sure about the level QIA are involved in regarding PSG's footballing matters either as they use it pretty much as a marketing/PR exercise, so I think simple ineptitude is more likely behind the transfer without any shady government officials involved in it. 😉

jones

banduan wrote:
If I was a betting man I'd put me money on Manc's Chevy deal being dodge.

This however is a completely different story, I can't remember all details but looking at how GM's marketing manager got fired shortly after the deal was announced there is no doubt about the deal being dodgy as fuck, especially given how he was forced to drastically cut marketing spending in the time before the United deal. Here you have a man who slashed all Facebook ads and even removed the Superbowl commercials to streamline expenses who then goes on to pay more than double of the highest rate in the market for one single sponsorship deal.

Only actual question is how involved United themselves were in arranging the heist, Ewanick certainly seemed intent on fucking GM over.

DiabyKungFu

Everyone who has nice things is a fucking crook. No two ways about it.

goon

banduan wrote:
If I was a betting man I'd put me money on Manc's Chevy deal being dodge.

Dodge is a completely separate company mate.

goon

Burnwinter™ wrote:
Obviously shonky sponsorship deals are fair game for UEFA. Apparently legal player transfers, by contrast, are the bedrock of FFP, and this one could be one of the only ways for Chelsea to get an extra £20m in the kitty.

Let's say Luiz was realistically a £30m player, obviously highly talented and committed but with consistency issues and not sure if he's a centre half or a DM.

Abramovich's unit, Millhouse Capital and the Qatar Investment Authority both have major exposure to oil production in a very bearish market. QIA dwarfs Abramovich, of course. Let's say they did a quiet energy derivatives deal on the side which their analysts privately agreed was worth a nett £30m on the forecasts to QIA, but which nevertheless assisted both investment groups by strengthening their corporate relations and spreading risk across their production operations.

As a consideration, QIA agree to fund the purchase of Luiz at £20m above market value.

Sure, it's conspiracist, but it sounds fairly plausible to me. And £50m for Luiz is a fucking weird fee.

They're not going to sabotage their own baby, which they've already invested in heavily for better relations and money that is quite frankly peanuts to them. And ultimately that's the crux of the matter, PSG is obviously a project that they desperately want to turn into a success and have poured a silly amount of cash into. I do find it implausible that they'd suddenly sabotage that, spending their entire FFP allowance on one player and forcing them to loan the likes of Aurier.

For the record, it was €50m so it's closer to £40m.

Burnwinter

£50m according to the Independent and Sky Sports at the time … I haven't bothered looking further.

I don't really understand your argument. You say QIA doesn't want to sabotage PSG, then you (correctly) point out that paying hugely for Luiz did sabotage PSG.

I'm being a bit silly with my little thought experiment, but it's pretty easy to see how two conglomerates that are both worth north of $10bn can find a way to either exchange cash under the table now, or to exchange something more abstract, like access to a business relationship, or a chance of future revenue, etc. Assuming they're not going to do it is pretty optimistic.

goon

BBC have it at £40m, so do a few others. Meh, I find it far more plausible that Blanc or one of the Qatari guys are Luiz fan boys. And you still have not explained how this benefits PSG, you seem to think they're just a sacrificial lamb. Will leave it at that, before you force me to finish this with a tin foil hat picture.

Burnwinter

otfgoon wrote:
And you still have not explained how this benefits PSG

Burnwinter™ wrote:
Abramovich's unit, Millhouse Capital and the Qatar Investment Authority both have major exposure to oil production in a very bearish market. QIA dwarfs Abramovich, of course. Let's say they did a quiet energy derivatives deal on the side which their analysts privately agreed was worth a nett £30m on the forecasts to QIA, but which nevertheless assisted both investment groups by strengthening their corporate relations and spreading risk across their production operations.

So the consideration isn't to PSG but to its owners.

I freely admit it's nothing more than conspiracy theory, but the organisations and individuals involved are absolutely capable of such a thing. Abramovich is a grafter who has made the entirety of his wealth from swiftly moving from one shell concern to the next, greasing his way with massive bribes.

This is a guy who was selling rubber ducks out of his flat twenty-five years ago and is now worth ten billion. If he wanted to pull it off to get Chelsea a bit extra to play with, he could have.

Timbob

I think the key to this becomes clear when you look at PSG's FFP transfer sanctions. They were restricted to a £49m net outlay, so they decided to just blow the lot on the one player. Get him in early by offering big, make some headlines etc.

Burnwinter

They were restricted to a £49m outlay, so Abramovich approached them and explained a way they could earn a bit on the side while giving Chelsea a nice little break with it.

goon

I mentioned PSG specifically Burns, rather than their owners, simply because I don't see them sacrificing their project to make a bit of extra money. Even from a business perspective, they've spent over half a billion on trying to get PSG to work, so sabotaging such a massive project/asset for a deal that would have to be small enough to go under the radar doesn't make any sense.

Worth noting that the QIA hold over £100bn worth of assets, it'd take a lot to grab their attention.

Burnwinter

There's plenty of ways it could work out in a football sense for PSG.

Along with Juve, Chelsea have one of the most speculative player regimes in football with a couple of dozen unlisted players of significant value out on loan. Maybe PSG were offered first dibs on a few of them. Maybe PSG have been promise some sort of reciprocal deal. shrug

End of the day it's flat bizarre that David Luiz was regarded by any club as worth 40-50m, that's all.

Mirth

Fifa president Sepp Blatter likened to Jesus. Churchill & Nelson Mandela

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32342080

Jed

jones wrote:
otfgoon wrote:
He's considered shit in England but clearly not elsewhere, as mentioned earlier there were other big clubs after him, Barcelona for one.

Luiz' problem is that he has a very high ceiling but very low floor. Little makes sense with him, he has brilliant moments (in defence too) as well as 7-1s in him. Also I can't believe nobody's ever told him to go to a fucking barber.

The sideshow bob hair probably adds about £10m to his value mate. Imagine if he was completely bald, he would never have cost £50m. 100%.

Klaus

I don't think Luiz has a high ceiling as a defender. He looked ace as a midfielder for a while on the other hand.

Rex

At his best he is no more than a good defender, but at his worst he is absolutely horrible defensively. Unfortunately, for him, he makes so many basic, stupid defensive mistakes. In midfield I have always quite liked him, and as a CB he is obviously very good in possession. Bit of a pet peeve of mine though that I want defenders to actually be good at defending, and Luiz is not.

Claudius

banduan wrote:
If I was a betting man I'd put me money on Manc's Chevy deal being dodge.

Top-selling jerseys for Premier League players should tell you everything you need to know about why United's shirt deal is so much bigger than anyone else's. Player shares of all Premier League shirt sales (%):

[size=x-small][font=Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif]Di Maria 7 9.59
Alexis 17 3.80
Diego Costa 19 2.27
De Gea 1 2.16
Hazard 10 2.10
Rooney 10 2.09[/font][/size]
[size=x-small][font=Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif]Falcao 9 1.99
Gerrard 8 1.76
Kun Aguero 16 1.46
v. Persie 20 1.20[/font][/size]

jones

Klaus wrote:
I don't think Luiz has a high ceiling as a defender. He looked ace as a midfielder for a while on the other hand.

He's good on the ball but his game is not that of a midfielder imo. Partnered with a CB that can sort his shit out he's class, very strong physically, can pick a pass and a big goal threat too.

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