Still ambivalent about this. He won't play that much if we're lucky and I wouldn't mind if he left provided a replacement came in.

On the other hand just hanging on to him does the trick too, and if it frustrates United so much the better.

Ideally we lure Manchester into protracted talks and then tell them to go fuck themselves on August 31. 🙂

Rex wrote:

We can easily get away with Vermaelen against the bottom half of the league as it is I reckon, but even more so if we add a proper striker and a class wide player.

I think the theory of playing bottom half sides vs the reality is quite different in these sorts of discussions. If anything our solidity against the bottom half sides is what kept us in the top 4 this season while you could have thrown Vermaelen into the big away games and we'd have fared no worse.

Vermaelen wasn't too awful when he did play. He's good enough to be third choice and deputise for a fortnight here or there when suspensions and niggles kick in.

Like any club we're going to struggle if either half of our first choice defensive pairing has a long furlough.

I think Vermaelen was good when he played too. If he had been less injured he could perhaps have pushed for a starting spot. He didn't get an easy ride when he did feature but he handled it well.

I'm not opposed to him moving on as such, but it becomes one more hole we need to plug in the squad this summer. We only have one goalkeeper, no rightback who's fit to start, we're missing at least one central defender with Vermaelen in the squad, we're entering our 4th season without a good backup for Arteta and (if we're serious about improving the team and not just maintaining status quo) we could still use a leftback who's less injury prone and more accomplished than the ones we've got. These are things that cost time and money to sort out, and we have to do it in addition to the two or three top signings we desperately need if we're serious about next season. It's just too much work for one summer.

We gave him too little game time last season. It was our fault actually. So many games we could have given one of our CBs a rest and we didnt.

He was injured every other time we needed him so he has absolutely no reason to complain.

No he wasn't. I remember DaG making a big fuss of it every time an easy match comes around and we still started with our first choice CB.

An "easy match"?
That's the way to think if you're not bothered about losing.
Games are only ever "easy" after the fact.
I had zero problems with the consistent, regular selection of our two best centre backs.
Neither suffered greatly because of it and tough on Vermaelen if he had neither the character nor the performances to make Wenger's choice less difficult.

2nd half of the season Verms fitness record was awful. If I remember rightly he started and played pretty well against West Ham away, then was out for a month with some minor niggle, was on the bench for 1 game then missed another month or so with a different injury. He had one or two other periods out too.

No manager changes their center back pairing for matches that are ' easier ' on paper.

The reserve center backs will always get a look in, in the Cup games and when the first team defenders need some rest. Vermaelen, as pointed out by Tim was injured a lot in the 2nd half when fatigue started setting in.

Clrnc wrote:

No he wasn't.

Yes he was. When Kos or Per were out, more often than not Vermaelen was out too. He was injured for two or three months in a row at one point. You lose your right to complain about a lack of playing time if you can't stay fit as a bloody reserve.

Timothy wrote:

2nd half of the season Verms fitness record was awful. If I remember rightly he started and played pretty well against West Ham away, then was out for a month with some minor niggle, was on the bench for 1 game then missed another month or so with a different injury. He had one or two other periods out too.

That's my recollection too. When we really needed to rest Kos and Per after christmas we couldn't do it because there was no one who could cover for them. We had to run them into the ground.

He got injured again and won't be available for Belgium. 😆

It's been years since Vermaelen was physically at 100%. Not a bad time to say sayonara.

y va marquer wrote:

An "easy match"?
That's the way to think if you're not bothered about losing.
Games are only ever "easy" after the fact.
I had zero problems with the consistent, regular selection of our two best centre backs.
Neither suffered greatly because of it and tough on Vermaelen if he had neither the character nor the performances to make Wenger's choice less difficult.

Exactly. Consistency at centre half is a good thing.

Ok if he goes. Plenty of options out there. I like Fazio and Schar

y va marquer wrote:

Neither suffered greatly because of it

They were crapola at times last season. We need so many new players that adding a CB to the list feels like too much. But we really need a CB.

qs! wrote:
y va marquer wrote:

An "easy match"?
That's the way to think if you're not bothered about losing.
Games are only ever "easy" after the fact.
I had zero problems with the consistent, regular selection of our two best centre backs.
Neither suffered greatly because of it and tough on Vermaelen if he had neither the character nor the performances to make Wenger's choice less difficult.

Exactly. Consistency at centre half is a good thing.

Sure but Mertesacker and Koscielny cannot realistically be expected to play 50 games a season. They're not getting younger and CB is like any other position, occasional rotation is needed for freshness.

All in all, I'd say we were very lucky with injuries in the CB department last season. IMO I think we need to keep Vermaelen AND sign another CB.

thats why keeping sagna would've made so much sense, but i know i'm preaching to the choir there, rex.

El Genio de Oviedo wrote:
qs! wrote:

Exactly. Consistency at centre half is a good thing.

Sure but Mertesacker and Koscielny cannot realistically be expected to play 50 games a season. They're not getting younger and CB is like any other position, occasional rotation is needed for freshness.

I reckon if you don't play the. In the CC and rotate a lite for the FA cup your centre halves can be fine bar bad luck. Positions that cover more ground need more rotation, as do explosive positions.

I like Vermaelen but think we will end up selling him this summer. Personally I think he could make Utd stronger despite what people think of his form in a Arsenal shirt. I think it's fine that he wants to go somewhere where he has a genuine chance at being first choice. He's had his opportunity here to do so and if he can't, especially at his age, then for his career, he should be looking to move. Unfortunately I think most people agree that we have enough areas needed to strengthen without having to contemplate a 3rd choice CB.

As far as potential replacements go, I think we will have to look at those CBs who are not considered genuine starters ahead of either PM or LK. I would imagine someone young with more raw potential experience than talent from somewhere in England, France or Germany or someone slightly older from the "lesser" leagues - i.e. anyone willing to bide their time as third choice. If we were to negotiate with Utd, I reckon we may look to either Phil Jones or Chris Smalling seeing as how we have held serious interest in both before.

I do agree we have other priorities without adding a new CB to them, but still feel that we should sell him. The farce over the captaincy would be settled and we can possibly try for an option that could complement LK and PM if one is injured.

if our 3rd CB is suppose to be there to help give kos and mert some rest then that 3rd center back can't be vermaelen, because he can't stay fit long enough to be a reliable sub. just get rid and buy a 3rd center back and promote one of the youngsters to 4th because any experienced 4th cb is gonna be shit and if they aren't shit, turn to shit with the lack of playing time.

a month later

If we are going to sell him, I hope we bring in a replacement before he leaves. Since Mertesacker is likely to miss our first two games, as he only returns on August 11th (along with Ozil and Podolski). Hence, we would be left with playing a reserve/ youth centre back for those games.

4 days later

Calum wearing Vermaelen's number 5.

Thought Chambers was supposed to be number 21, but this can't just be a cock up can it? Maybe the deal to United is done and dusted and we're waiting to get in another defender before we announce it?

Who knows, but players often wear the wrong number in pre-season.

Since he only joined a day ago they haven't got one with his number on.

Heard that they didn't have time to prepare all the number 21 training stuffs so he took the absent Vermaelen's one temporarily for this trip.

Ricky1985 wrote:

Maybe the deal to United is done and dusted and we're waiting to get in another defender before we announce it?

I think if United had agreed a deal they'd want him now for their preseason.

It is curious that he didn't travel though. I guess we'll hear more at Wengers next press conference.

People are jumping through a lot of hoops to try to justify Chambers wearing his number, Occums Razer- he's gone and they're waiting for some formality.
It won't worry Wenger to cobble together some sort of defence for the first month, he has form for this.

Biggus wrote:

Occums Razer- he's gone and they're waiting for some formality.

They're selling Chambers 21 shirts in the club store. Occums Razor that then.

Stuart MacFarlane confirming on Twitter that Calum is #21. Called it lazy journalism.

Patters wrote:

Since he only joined a day ago they haven't got one with his number on.

Patters - Occam-razoring the shit out of threads since November 2011.

He is

And as for Vermaelen, he has been a nothing player for us for past two years and an absolutely pointless captain. 100% that he's joining ManU very, very soon. There have been hints and soundbites from him, his agent and the club that its happening (Ornstein mentioning it on multiple occasions that we'e looking for a replacemernt). Last year of contract, no point to lose out on £7m-£10m over someone like him. He had a family vacation with his mate Robin and his family a few weeks ago, so clear its done.

qs! wrote:

They're selling Chambers 21 shirts in the club store. Occums Razor that then.

We'll see.