General Football 2014/15: Page 55 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

General Football 2014/15

Klaus

y va marquer wrote:
I realise people have an issue with this, fair enough.

I think you're spot on for what it's worth, Y Va.

Rex

Chelsea looks a top, top team. They look good enough as a unit to beat the likes of Madrid, Bayern or Barcelona over 2 legs. Not that they can match them player for player, but they defend well, have a top goalkeeper, and enough firepower going forward to beat anyone.

Biggus

And don't forget they have a brilliant match tactician manager too Rex.

Biggus

Rex wrote:
Charity is not giving because you owe someone something.

Nevertheless, it's pretty much accepted that football clubs should give back to the communities where they're located, and thats where Arsenals charity should begin.
Kenny Sansom was sleeping rough before our board decided to help him.
There are plenty of more deserving cases than Gasgoigne, his former clubs and the PFA for a start.

Mirth

Arsenal do plenty for the community both in terms of raising money and awareness, every season. It's not like Gascoigne is the first time we've helped someone in need - and he definitely needs all the help, the man has some serious demons. Just because he's high profile and played for Spurs doesn't change that.

Qwiss

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
It's a decent thing to do it's just there are so many causes we could prioritise. Gazza has spurned both personal wealth and previous help offered to him. He also likely has plenty of other avenues to seek help.

Exactly.

I'm joining the "sort out ex-Arsenal players first" brigade. Or fuck it, sort out some poor kids in North London or some old dude who spent 50 years watching us week in week out or even send it to West Africa now.

goon

I don't disagree that there are people who are more deserving of the help, but this wasn't something we sought out, a case turned up on our doorstep and it'd be pretty cruel to to say 'hey this guy needs help but he's a Tottenham man and others deserve it more so tough luck, we have other priorities'.

Rex

He is a twat, and not half as good as is being made out. I'll give you that he is very clear in the manner he wants his teams to play, he is also very good at getting top class players to play that way, and he is very good at buying the players he needs to make his football successful.

However, he doesn't strike me, at all, as a manager who would do very well on a budget, or with a group of players that have other qualities than the ones he desires. For example, he couldn't make it work at Chelsea last season despite the players he had at his disposal. I think last season and his years at Madrid also showed that he isn't as tactically flexible as is being touted.

Patters

I don't deny that he needed/needs help and I agree that everyone should be access to help. But the thing that I didn't really understand is why doesn't he just queue up at the NHS like the rest of us? That's why I don't think this is a particularly praise-worthy act from the club. But I don't criticise them for it either. If, as Klaus says, Lewin just wanted to help out a friend its none of my business.

y va marquer

The rest of us are not chronic alcoholics with deep rooted psychological disorders though.

People who are as ill as he, regardless of their background, are incapable of making the kind of rational, considered decisions that "normal" people make.

lorddulaarsenal

The club should have pointed him in the direction of other organisations who can help.

Rex

Not like anyone at the club has mentioned this. You have to remember that he received the help he got from our guys when reaching out, which is always worthy of praise IMO, and it was Gazza himself who mentioned that he got help from here. This was obviously not like any of the charities the club and players take part in every year, but staff and players voluntarily opening their hearts, and wallets, to a former colleague. It's hardly like it is either help people in West Africa or Gascoigne. They are perfectly capable of doing both.

lorddulaarsenal

It's ok if it's the staff' sown money. Hadn't realised that

flobaba

Why is that the ultimate test of a manager? Managing on a budget.

He is an elite manager - up there with Pep and Ancelotti, and elite coaches don't usually work on budgets. I don't hear you criticizing those guys for not working on budgets.

Anyway your claim isn't really true. It wasn't like he started coaching top clubs from the very beginning. In His time in Portugal he was highly successful - locally and globally. Porto didn't have a limitless budget did they? And yet he won the champion's league, outfoxing great European managers, including Fergie en route. You can tell who the real deal is, and who's a faker. AVB. Remember that guy? Where is he now? Also, you're intimating he didn't have a successful time in Spain with Real? He wrested the league away from Pep, away from the best team in Europe at the time, effectively forcing Pep into a brief retirement break. No easy feat. Gave that Real team a solidity and personality which Ancelotti has subsequently built upon. And what of his results in Italy with Inter? He won everything! Last season he was coming fresh into the league and figuring out his team. Still finished ahead of us, and was crucial in determining where the title ended up. This year, he's running away with it, singlehandedly making the rest of the league look like mugs. Yes, he's got the funds, but having the funds doesn't necessarily translate into success. You have to be a great manager to be able to consistently use Your money to get what you need and achieve your objectives. Which he does.

A manager's job is to win. And this man wins. Everywhere he goes! Also, which coach wants to work with players who don't have the attributes he desires? I mean what is that even supposed to mean??

Cmon men, if you don't like the man or his methods, fair enough. But don't try to take away from his achievements with budgetary straw man arguments.

Bold Tone

The standards by which Real Madrid managers are judged mean Jose Mourinho's time at the club was considered a failure. He failed to permanently topple Barcelona, and he failed to deliver the club’s 10th European Cup.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/real-madrid/10069868/Jose-Mourinho-lost-the-dressing-room-at-Real-Madrid-and-failed-in-the-transfer-market.html

flobaba

That the media in Spain hated him was the bigger issue. Also, Real wants to win playing flamboyant football.

Mourinho don't give a shit about joga Bonita.

Biggus

If my team were playing in a tough CL knockout tie, there isn't another manager I'd want.

ludovicvanzis

Jose is usually poor in the transfer market. Prolly his main flaw.

Even this summer most of the players he bought were more Chelsea transfers than his own. He did well to replace Mata with Fabregas though. Not sure how many other managers would have sold Mata so quickly.

Rex

Flo, I have the same criticism of Guardiola. There is just no way that his brand of football will work with anything other than world class players.

Moron's time at Inter was much the same; had the best team in the league, by a street, and had a massive budget to work with.

In the end, I stand by everything I said.

flobaba

Sure.

In a career which has spanned just over a decade, and in which he has won about 20 trophies (including all the domestic titles available in all of football's major leagues), you basically ignore everything else and pick out two incidences to prove your point that he is not "half as good as is being made out" and not as "tactically flexible as is being touted"

He is one of the greatest managers in the history of the game, and will always be remembered as such. Regardless of where you stand about budget or no budget, the man's resume speaks for itself.

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