qs! wrote:

Gazza M wrote:

coleman isn't top level, and i'm not sure he will ever be. and sagna is superior to him in both directions. imo.

Coleman was the best full back in the league this season. And by some distance.

I don't see why people find it difficult to agree with that. It is so obvious.

I do find Luke Shaw overrated a little over here, yet people are willing to spend 30m on him and not lesser for Coleman

Can't say I particularly rate Alves that highly (defensively) but another Lahm would be worth the £25m fee. Right now we need to prioritise elsewhere, we haven't got £25m to spend on a RB.

I do agree a top class fullback could transform our attack, however in this league you can't get away without a fullback who can't defend well.

Shaw is very young, played very well against us and most of all is English. Of course he's a little over hyped. Certainly not as good as Coleman yet but he might have a higher ceiling.

The thing about Coleman is he was probably Evertons POTY too, far better than say Barkley or Lukaku who people are obsessed with here. He's exactly the sort of full back we need. However he's proven his worth now and is beyond our spending limit for a full back.

I like the look of Aurier from the little I've seen. If we can get him at a decent price then I'm all for it. We need another right back as well though, maybe Chambers or even Clyne. We can't go into the season with a new right back and Jenks as our options though.

Any old war horses we could pick up for a year while Jenks is on loan? Obviously wont get Sagna quality but someone half decent to rotate with Aurier would work.

JazzG wrote:

Can't say I particularly rate Alves that highly (defensively) but another Lahm would be worth the £25m fee. Right now we need to prioritise elsewhere, we haven't got £25m to spend on a RB.

I do agree a top class fullback could transform our attack, however in this league you can't get away without a fullback who can't defend well.

Alves could defend though, he was very good 1v1 and had insane stamina, made 1000 runs up and down the pitch and still looked like he could go on for another day even at the 90th minute. You just have to compare him with Alba to appreciate his defensive contributions.

However it's fair to say he wasn't top class defensively, but that is true for almost all elite fullbacks I have seen in my life. They've all had questions asked about their defensive contribution. I think only Maicon at Inter (not his last 2-3 years) had the perfect balance between attack and defence.

Anyway I don't think too much importance is placed on the defensive contribution of fullback these days, every footballer with the right attributes could be taught to do a job defensively IMO, defending is the easiest thing to do in football. Juanfran at Athletico doesn't have any natural defensive instincts, but I understand Simeone used to have (and probably still does) few sessions with him in a week and he does decent job for them at the back. Even a negative manager like Dunga used to play Bastos (predominantly a winger) at LB.

A player like Alves could transform our attack, he was like a play-maker (vision, passing, dribbling etc) and RB rolled into 1. I remember him very well at Seville, he ran their attack. Our attack is decent at best IMO, I'd prioritise taking it to an elite level. I think a top class attacking fullback, a top class striker (with pace, good touch, passing, dribbling etc) and a top class wing forward (again another all-rounder with good pace, dribbling, passing etc) could do that.

Our fullbacks are holding us back, and I'm not saying this because of the way we've ended the season, I was saying it too when we were top of the league and looking very good.

If there's a top class attacking RB out there, we should do everything to bring him in. Do not underestimate the effect it could have on our attack.

Tactics wrote:

However it's fair to say he wasn't top class defensively, but that is true for almost all elite fullbacks I have seen in my life. They've all had questions asked about their defensive contribution. I think only Maicon at Inter (not his last 2-3 years) had the perfect balance between attack and defence.

Thuram and Maldini were world class defenders too (and turned into world class centrebacks later on). And Zambrotta. But yeah, it's rare. It's not that rare to find fullbacks who are defensively sound though. You just need to make up your mind about the way you want to play and take it from there.

In the CL games always thought Alves looked vulnerable, in the Spanish league hardly looked anyone could go near him though. Good shout on Maicon, I think he used to start ahead of Alves for Brazil. Guy was immense going forward and defensively, I think around the time Bale ruined him he was on the decline though and dropped quite sharply. Javier Zanetti is another great all round fullbacks, they are very rare to find.

From what I can gather Aurier looks to be very impressive going forward, scored 6 and set up 7 this season in France. Not a bad record at all. Sagna's crossing this season has really improved and our attacks already have looked much better. Gibbs on the other hand seems to get up the pitch a fair bit but the end product just isn't there. Eboue was actually pretty decent going forward but a real liability at the back, a few were surprised when we signed Sagna but I think in this league full backs are in for a tough time if they can't defend.

I can't see Wenger investing more than £13m or thereabouts in a full back.
Would Aurier cost more?

Klaus wrote:

Tactics wrote:

However it's fair to say he wasn't top class defensively, but that is true for almost all elite fullbacks I have seen in my life. They've all had questions asked about their defensive contribution. I think only Maicon at Inter (not his last 2-3 years) had the perfect balance between attack and defence.

Thuram and Maldini were world class defenders too (and turned into world class centrebacks later on). But yeah, it's rare. It's not that rare to find fullbacks who are defensively sound though. You just need to make up your mind about the way you want to play and take it from there.

Yeah no doubt, those two were boss. But I actually meant those elite attacking fullbacks in the mould of Roberto Carlos, Alves etc Thuram always looked a CB playing out wide to me, similar to Sagna.

It would be wise for Sagna to make a similar switch (to CB), wouldn't it? It could help prolong his career at the top level. He's a truly outstanding defender.

JazzG wrote:

In the CL games always thought Alves looked vulnerable, in the Spanish league hardly looked anyone could go near him though. Good shout on Maicon, I think he used to start ahead of Alves for Brazil. Guy was immense going forward and defensively, I think around the time Bale ruined him he was on the decline though and dropped quite sharply. Javier Zanetti is another great all round fullbacks, they are very rare to find.

From what I can gather Aurier looks to be very impressive going forward, scored 6 and set up 7 this season in France. Not a bad record at all. Sagna's crossing this season has really improved and our attacks already have looked much better. Gibbs on the other hand seems to get up the pitch a fair bit but the end product just isn't there. Eboue was actually pretty decent going forward but a real liability at the back, a few were surprised when we signed Sagna but I think in this league full backs are in for a tough time if they can't defend.

I think Alves isn't that too dissimilar from Evra defensively, they both rely on their athleticism to get the job done. They've both looked more and more vulnerable over the last 2 years as they deteriorate physically.

Eboue was indeed decent going forward, he had the technique, skill, pace, to develop into a top RB, but his IQ was far too low. His decision making was poor/inconsistent and vision non-existent. Alves is on another level in those areas. I doubt Wenger would have bought Sagna if Eboue could see the game well and make good decisions on the ball.

Zanetti is ace, one of the best dribblers in the game. He's so versatile, was used in several positions by Mancini and was still one of their best players.

Like what I have read and seen of Aurier (youtube), hope he's the real deal if we bring him in.

Not sure why but this guy comes across as well ekotto-ish

Not as in an extremely awful footballer, I hope?

That and he doesn't come across as he'd be able to apply himself well

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:

Not sure why but this guy comes across as well ekotto-ish

Ekotto was good under harry.

Tactics wrote:

I doubt Wenger would have bought Sagna if Eboue could see the game well and make good decisions on the ball.

Think some diabolical defending is what probably convinced him to get rid.

speedy wrote:

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:

Not sure why but this guy comes across as well ekotto-ish

Ekotto was good under harry.

He is still better than anything they have got at LB this season. Retarded decision to let him leave.

Tactics is absolutely spot on re: fullbacks.

Do feel if Sagna want to remain top class for years to come he will need to make the switch to CB. It is not as hard for speedy wingers to beat him 1 on 1 nowadays, but as far as heading and tackling is concerned he is second to none. I haven't seen a single game that he wasn't top class as a CB whenever he played there.

Alves at Sevilla was amazing. One of the best players on Earth. He was like that cartoon character the Tasmanian devil.

Here's hoping Serge can lead us like that.

It was less Alves that got attacked in the CL than the right back zone that was vacated during his runs, but he was just doing his job. He was a great player in his prime.

sign him and ricardo rodriguez and fullback is sorted.