kamikaze wrote:

ugh i hated song. the guy had no idea what his strengths and weaknesses were.

He did. People just expected something else.

He didn't. In his last season he thought he was Andrea Pirlo.

Saddest part about that was that he was the most reliable creator for RvP during that final season.

Limited playing time and being forced to play with less freedom at Barcelona MUST have made him more suited for a holding role.

If you look at the traits most people here look for in a midfield addition, Song actually possesses them:
Big - check
Strong - check
Good in the air - check
Dynamic - check
Strong in the tackle - check
Better than decent on the ball - check

I think most of us want a player who is more disciplined positionally than the Song we mostly saw here, but it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that he has actually improved that aspect of his game.

There is of course also the speculation as to WHY we let him go so easily without putting up much of a fight; if the rumors that he was disruptive are true, then there is of course no chance we are interested in taking him back. Personally, I'd be well pleased to have him back, and I reckon he can be had at a decent price too this summer. That is of course only of any value if we put what we 'save' from that into the 'Beast Striker Fund'.

It wasn't Song who started playing Arteta as the deepest midfield while pushing himself further forward and giving him more offensive responsibility, was it?

The fact that Song has successfully played the holding role for us on a few occasions, tells me it had more to do with what Wenger wanted from his midfield than with Song's lack of ability as a player.

Song wasn't pushed forward. He just sat at the halfway line spraying passes. Total diva.

I don't agree with that. It was easy to blame Song for our midfield being overrun so easily, but the reality is that it had more to do with the overall shape of the team than with Song's poor awareness and whatnot.

I've no idea how he's doing at Barcelona, but from what I've seen in the past few years, they're a mess defensively even without him.

Don't like how this thread makes Arteta sound like some form of emergency solution. He's been a class player for us and was already well familiar with the role we asked him to play.

Song had qualities, but I really don't miss the way he butchered our game. Watching Ramsey and Arteta is a great reminder of how you tackle opponents without causing fouls and breaking play. Song never learned that. Every time he lost the ball or the direction of play turned around he was a yellow card waiting to happen, no matter where on the pitch he was. Couldn't make a standing tackle if his life depended on it.

wenger let song do whatever the fuck he wanted in his last 2 years. i remember him saying song playing further forward wasn't really a conscious decision, it just happened, and wenger didn't bother putting a stop to it.

Wenger's idea to push players up ahead of the ball to create space in midfield is bonkers to begin with.

If we let song go it was for a decent reason. I was never happy with his close positional play as he got passed through to easily for me. I cannot see a situation where we go about resigning him.

Going by wenger I see us signing Rabiot off PSG in the summer. The guy is talented kid who said he would leave if another CM was brought in, then they went and bought cabaye. He wants game time so we would be the best option of the big clubs involved.

I don't think we afford to have another developing player in our central midfield. We already have a few who aren't the finished article.

Rex wrote:

I don't think we afford to have another developing player in our central midfield. We already have a few who aren't the finished article.

I don't think he will be able to stop himself if the guy is on the market with 12 month left on his deal.

It is also about playing time. Wenger needs to get Ox and Wilshere enough games to develop, and he certainly has an eye on bringing Zelalem through in the not too distant future.

We should be using Wilshere and Chamberlain on the wings though, especially with Walcott unlikely to be up to speed during the first couple months of the season. We need sound players on the ball in those holding positions or we are utterly screwed given Wenger's tactics. Even Ramsey needs to iron some things out. Wilshere and Chamberlain are far too mistake-prone at this point.

I agree Rabiot doesn't make sense with Zelalem in the squad though. Our next CM signing should be in the 24-26 age range - Schneiderlin, Iturraspe, Bender, etc.

ludovic van zis wrote:

He didn't. In his last season he thought he was Andrea Pirlo.

He got as many assists in his last season as Mesut Ozil has since coming to Arsenal. Is that supposed to be a bad thing? In a season where we struggled desperately for creativity, his Hollywood balls to Van Persie saved us on several occasions at the same time as he was held responsible for pretty much every defensive lapse.

An imperfect player but far from the unreliable and undisciplined narcissist that the haters like to make out.

I think people appreciated his creative contributions, but if we don't have discipline and stability in central midfield we are sunk. He clearly did something to piss Wenger off too.

Have to remember though that 1) he played about 8 or 9 of those balls a game and resulted in a lot of balls straight out for goal kicks and 2) less than 10% of those assists would have been made with any striker other than van Persie as he's probably one of a select few playing right now who could finish those volley chances in football that season.

That said he was a really good player prior to that season when he was focused on his defensive responsibilities and only really started thinking he was the next Pirlo when Fabregas left us. Maybe it was a subconscious decision on his part not believing in others around him to pick up the creative slack (who could blame him by the way) or maybe it was Wengers tactics. What it lead to, in my opinion at least, was us being exposed at the back a lot more than when he was focused on his defensive responsibilities.

Loyan wrote:

Have to remember though that 1) he played about 8 or 9 of those balls a game and resulted in a lot of balls straight out for goal kicks and 2) less than 10% of those assists would have been made with any striker other than van Persie as he's probably one of a select few playing right now who could finish those volley chances in football that season.

That's quite exaggerated in my opinion. I don't think there were 8 or 9 of those balls a game, and relying on Van Persie's ability is hardly a weakness.

I'd definitely agree that Van Persie made Song look a much better creator than he would be in this side. Once again though, Song would've been a very able deputy or alternative for Arteta in our current setup. Flamini hasn't been bad either.

i agree that a disciplined song would be a very good player - unfortunately he isn't.

he's also not really a vocal, organising type, and he lacks nous. seemed like we used to find guys with those attributes fairly easily (edu, gilberto). i'd much rather guys who get it and have something going on upstairs (like those two, vieira, arteta) than a clueless dolt like song. wenger doesn't do match-specific tactics (i think this debate has finally been resolved after 9 yrs), so we need coaches on the pitch.

"Clueless dolt"? That's extreme. Anyway, he isn't coming back, so I should stop bothering to defend him, we all made our minds up ages ago.

Burnwinter wrote:

Loyan wrote:

Have to remember though that 1) he played about 8 or 9 of those balls a game and resulted in a lot of balls straight out for goal kicks and 2) less than 10% of those assists would have been made with any striker other than van Persie as he's probably one of a select few playing right now who could finish those volley chances in football that season.

That's quite exaggerated in my opinion. I don't think there were 8 or 9 of those balls a game, and relying on Van Persie's ability is hardly a weakness.

I'd definitely agree that Van Persie made Song look a much better creator than he would be in this side. Once again though, Song would've been a very able deputy or alternative for Arteta in our current setup. Flamini hasn't been bad either.

I was exaggerating to make a point BW. But the thing is it's not only "this" specific side. van Persie made Song look a better creator than he would be in nearly any side in the world. Hardly any strikers in football can turn those Song specialties into proper assists. They weren't even really half chances either. It took unbelievable skill to create. Proper chance from those situations. I'm not criticising Song, just saying for one reason or another it was decided he would take up the creative burden once Cesc left and for better or worse (probably both) resulted him neglecting his defensive duties. Song is a quality player but a side like ours needs a player like Song was in his second from last season for us rather than the one who left us.

Oh never said Flamini was bad either. I actually like him a lot despite despising the thought of him being able to come back here after how he left us but he's proved his worth to change my opinion of him. Just needs to cut a bit of the recklessness from his game and at times focus a little more on his positioning and responsibilities instead of focussing on others (which is a good thing most of the time but at times he does get caught out while he's too busy yelling at the team to realise what's going on). Good squad player to have.

Can't find anything to disagree with in that Loyan.

Song didn't 'just' do the ball over the top though, did he? IIRC he also played Henry in for THAT goal on his comeback. However, I did say that Song COULD be of interest IF he had picked up some positional discipline at Barcelona. I don't think that is too outrageous a thought either since their deepest midfielder is always expected to be highly disciplined.

I really liked Song, thought he was developing into an excellent 2 way midfielder. I was sad to see him go.

He was also never injured, which is a massive bonus for our side.

Every time I've seen him at Barca he seems lost on the pitch. He hasn't caught up to their system it seems.

I still think Song could have become a great CB.

The balls over the top for van Persie were only a few of his brilliant through passes that year, hardly like he just booted the ball forward and the Dutchman did all the work.

Wish we had someone who could(and would) play passes like that in this team. I'll admit, having a static donkey as a striker doesn't help. Neither does missing the only wide forward we have who tries to make runs in behind. Having said that, most of our midfielders rather play it safe or mess up the final ball when they try something like that. Özil and Ramsey being the exceptions this season, but neither has been around for a while now.

Yeah. The thing is, you don't succeed with those passes without missing a fair few. I think too much is made of the missed passes myself, and since they are in the final third it really shouldn't leave us vulnerable defensively.

Pass %, chances created and shot/goal stats are all either misleading or unimportant IMO.

Kel Varnsen wrote:

I still think Song could have become a great CB.

Me too. Very strong in one v ones

Rex wrote:

Yeah. The thing is, you don't succeed with those passes without missing a fair few. I think too much is made of the missed passes myself, and since they are in the final third it really shouldn't leave us vulnerable defensively.

You could tell he was a good passer from very early in his career. But he wasn't as good as the best playmakers in the CL so when he started focusing his game on that aspect he became dispensible. The refusing to track back and other questionable stuff sealed the deal.

He didn't refuse to track back. Where is this coming from?!

Right, it's like we've somehow transitioned from a view that Song didn't focus enough on his defensive positioning to a view that he staged an industrial protest in the attacking third for half the season. That didn't happen.

a lot of people didn't like Song from the beginning and refused to accept any improvements he's made. with respect, it's like Lagos regarding Theo. Song would form a useful group of three with Flamini and Arteta to compete for the two holding spots.

I remember Gibbs giving Song one or two bollockings for not falling back.
Vermaelen played a lot that season and he frequently had his moments of heroic madness when he pushed up the field in a surge and sometimes he signaled to Song to go back and cover for him. Song rarely complied and instead just moped around on the halfway line.

And i don't dislike Song, enough of that nonsense.

ludovic van zis wrote:

In his last season he thought he was Andrea Pirlo.

ludovic van zis wrote:

He just sat at the halfway line spraying passes. Total diva.

ludovic van zis wrote:

The refusing to track back and other questionable stuff sealed the deal.

ludovic van zis wrote:

And i don't dislike Song, enough of that nonsense.

:egg: