Lars Bender: Page 5 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Lars Bender

Burnwinter

All the rumours about his attitude in training being off only appeared after the snap decision to sell him to Barca.

At the time I remember thinking it seemed like the club was leaking against him as a damage control exercise. There was probably something in it though.

Burnwinter

Loyan wrote:
Have to remember though that 1) he played about 8 or 9 of those balls a game and resulted in a lot of balls straight out for goal kicks and 2) less than 10% of those assists would have been made with any striker other than van Persie as he's probably one of a select few playing right now who could finish those volley chances in football that season.

That's quite exaggerated in my opinion. I don't think there were 8 or 9 of those balls a game, and relying on Van Persie's ability is hardly a weakness.

I'd definitely agree that Van Persie made Song look a much better creator than he would be in this side. Once again though, Song would've been a very able deputy or alternative for Arteta in our current setup. Flamini hasn't been bad either.

kamikaze

i agree that a disciplined song would be a very good player - unfortunately he isn't.

he's also not really a vocal, organising type, and he lacks nous. seemed like we used to find guys with those attributes fairly easily (edu, gilberto). i'd much rather guys who get it and have something going on upstairs (like those two, vieira, arteta) than a clueless dolt like song. wenger doesn't do match-specific tactics (i think this debate has finally been resolved after 9 yrs), so we need coaches on the pitch.

Burnwinter

"Clueless dolt"? That's extreme. Anyway, he isn't coming back, so I should stop bothering to defend him, we all made our minds up ages ago.

Big Willie

Burnwinter wrote:
Loyan wrote:
Have to remember though that 1) he played about 8 or 9 of those balls a game and resulted in a lot of balls straight out for goal kicks and 2) less than 10% of those assists would have been made with any striker other than van Persie as he's probably one of a select few playing right now who could finish those volley chances in football that season.

That's quite exaggerated in my opinion. I don't think there were 8 or 9 of those balls a game, and relying on Van Persie's ability is hardly a weakness.

I'd definitely agree that Van Persie made Song look a much better creator than he would be in this side. Once again though, Song would've been a very able deputy or alternative for Arteta in our current setup. Flamini hasn't been bad either.

I was exaggerating to make a point BW. But the thing is it's not only "this" specific side. van Persie made Song look a better creator than he would be in nearly any side in the world. Hardly any strikers in football can turn those Song specialties into proper assists. They weren't even really half chances either. It took unbelievable skill to create. Proper chance from those situations. I'm not criticising Song, just saying for one reason or another it was decided he would take up the creative burden once Cesc left and for better or worse (probably both) resulted him neglecting his defensive duties. Song is a quality player but a side like ours needs a player like Song was in his second from last season for us rather than the one who left us.

Oh never said Flamini was bad either. I actually like him a lot despite despising the thought of him being able to come back here after how he left us but he's proved his worth to change my opinion of him. Just needs to cut a bit of the recklessness from his game and at times focus a little more on his positioning and responsibilities instead of focussing on others (which is a good thing most of the time but at times he does get caught out while he's too busy yelling at the team to realise what's going on). Good squad player to have.

Burnwinter

Can't find anything to disagree with in that Loyan. 🙂

Rex

Song didn't 'just' do the ball over the top though, did he? IIRC he also played Henry in for THAT goal on his comeback. However, I did say that Song COULD be of interest IF he had picked up some positional discipline at Barcelona. I don't think that is too outrageous a thought either since their deepest midfielder is always expected to be highly disciplined.

Irishgunner

I really liked Song, thought he was developing into an excellent 2 way midfielder. I was sad to see him go.

He was also never injured, which is a massive bonus for our side.

Kurtz

Every time I've seen him at Barca he seems lost on the pitch. He hasn't caught up to their system it seems.

Kel Varnsen

I still think Song could have become a great CB.

est

The balls over the top for van Persie were only a few of his brilliant through passes that year, hardly like he just booted the ball forward and the Dutchman did all the work.

Wish we had someone who could(and would) play passes like that in this team. I'll admit, having a static donkey as a striker doesn't help. Neither does missing the only wide forward we have who tries to make runs in behind. Having said that, most of our midfielders rather play it safe or mess up the final ball when they try something like that. Özil and Ramsey being the exceptions this season, but neither has been around for a while now.

Rex

Yeah. The thing is, you don't succeed with those passes without missing a fair few. I think too much is made of the missed passes myself, and since they are in the final third it really shouldn't leave us vulnerable defensively.

Qwiss

Pass %, chances created and shot/goal stats are all either misleading or unimportant IMO.

lorddulaarsenal

Kel Varnsen wrote:
I still think Song could have become a great CB.

Me too. Very strong in one v ones

ludovicvanzis

Rex wrote:
Yeah. The thing is, you don't succeed with those passes without missing a fair few. I think too much is made of the missed passes myself, and since they are in the final third it really shouldn't leave us vulnerable defensively.

You could tell he was a good passer from very early in his career. But he wasn't as good as the best playmakers in the CL so when he started focusing his game on that aspect he became dispensible. The refusing to track back and other questionable stuff sealed the deal.

Rex

He didn't refuse to track back. Where is this coming from?!

Burnwinter

Right, it's like we've somehow transitioned from a view that Song didn't focus enough on his defensive positioning to a view that he staged an industrial protest in the attacking third for half the season. That didn't happen.

Claudius

a lot of people didn't like Song from the beginning and refused to accept any improvements he's made. with respect, it's like Lagos regarding Theo. Song would form a useful group of three with Flamini and Arteta to compete for the two holding spots.

ludovicvanzis

I remember Gibbs giving Song one or two bollockings for not falling back.
Vermaelen played a lot that season and he frequently had his moments of heroic madness when he pushed up the field in a surge and sometimes he signaled to Song to go back and cover for him. Song rarely complied and instead just moped around on the halfway line.

And i don't dislike Song, enough of that nonsense.

Burnwinter

ludovic van zis wrote:
In his last season he thought he was Andrea Pirlo.

ludovic van zis wrote:
He just sat at the halfway line spraying passes. Total diva.

ludovic van zis wrote:
The refusing to track back and other questionable stuff sealed the deal.

ludovic van zis wrote:
And i don't dislike Song, enough of that nonsense.

:egg:

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