Arteta - Over the Hill: Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arteta - Over the Hill

Qwiss

Nela wrote:
In general we need players who are stronger, faster and more determined.

Ivanovic never gets much praise or attention, but his pace and strength does so much. Outpaced Santi today with ease. And I don't even think of Ivanovic as a quick player.

You need at least 2 quick players in the front 4 IMO. So you can play Giroud but you need 2 quick wingers. Or you can play Ozil and Cazorla but you need a quick winger and striker. What you can't do is play Cazorla, Rosicky, Giroud and Podolski/Ozil all together.

Clrnc

qs! wrote:
Patters wrote:
Since Ramsey got injured we've lacked the power and drive from midfield. Jack had a few good games in and around early January but he hasn't got anywhere near the running power of Ramsey, and definitely not the strength. Wenger's decision to change from buliding teams of incredible athletes is very strange. We need physical presence in the centre. It might not be a popular thought with football snobs, but rightly or wrongly it remains an important part of English football.

Completely agree. Thats why I don't even like playing Jack deep. Ramsey and a big burly athlete who can play a quick simple pass is what we need.

Look at how Matic bossed it for them today. The height, the presence, the power through the middle.

Its no coincidence since we sold Vieira we won nothing.

Qwiss

Clrnc wrote:
qs! wrote:
Completely agree. Thats why I don't even like playing Jack deep. Ramsey and a big burly athlete who can play a quick simple pass is what we need.

Look at how Matic bossed it for them today. The height, the presence, the power through the middle.

Its no coincidence since we sold Vieira we won nothing.

Yep. And even when Ramsey is out then you still have that guy plus someone like Arteta and you are just losing a little going forward, not getting completely exposed at the back.

Gazza M

shouldve signed vidal from leverkusen tbf

lorddulaarsenal

Technically very good but his lack of pace means he gets caught out far too often

Ray

Players like Cazorla, Arteta, Rosicky, Giroud, Podolski are great squad options, and great for beating the bottom 10 teams, but for the big games we need to upgrade those positions.

innervisionscm

qs! wrote:
We had one sitting on the bench today. There are loads in our league alone. He'd be so easily improved upon in this regard.

Arteta is better in every single statistical category than Flamini this season. Every single one. Tackles, interceptions, passes, passing success rate, etc. And he typically plays against more difficult opposition and in the big games. You like the "physical" type of player that Flamini is but there's no basis to saying he's better than Arteta. His positioning is inconsistent, he gets himself in trouble with rash tackles, and he's average on the ball.

In the PL I'd say Fernandinho and Matic are better holding players this season than Arteta and that's it. This team does not need an overhaul and is not psychologically weak. We have one of the best all-action/physical CMs in the world in Ramsey who unfortunately has been injured for months. We need a striker and a couple squad players (including CM IMO, but mainly for depth) and we need to sort out our team shape in big games. With a top striker purchase (Costa) there is enough physicality and pace in the squad.

Qwiss

Rayman wrote:
Players like Cazorla, Arteta, Rosicky, Giroud, Podolski are great squad options, and great for beating the bottom 10 teams, but for the big games we need to upgrade those positions.

I think Cazorla is a level above the rest of those.

Nela

I don't see the point of Santi anymore.

Last year's Santi? Sure.

But the current Santi is slow, gives away the ball, doesn't see the whole pitch. He's a defensive liability and barely adds anything going forward.

And he constantly get's into decent positions to shoot only to delay and then shoot straight at the blocker. Drives me mad.

innervisionscm

Cazorla just shouldn't be an option on the wing in important matches. He's not fast and strong enough. He's a squad #10 for me (and an excellent option).

Ray

qs! wrote:
Rayman wrote:
Players like Cazorla, Arteta, Rosicky, Giroud, Podolski are great squad options, and great for beating the bottom 10 teams, but for the big games we need to upgrade those positions.

I think Cazorla is a level above the rest of those.

Cazorla doesn't seem physically strong enough when played on the wings, against the big teams, so he is competing with Ozil...

Qwiss

Nela wrote:
I don't see the point of Santi anymore.

Last year's Santi? Sure.

But the current Santi is slow, gives away the ball, doesn't see the whole pitch. He's a defensive liability and barely adds anything going forward.

The stats from the last few weeks show him to give the ball away less than any other player.

I feel he adds a lot going forward and while I wouldn't mind getting someone like Reus to replace him I think bare a top signing like that he'd be hard to improve upon.

Defensively he is a liability, much like Ozil. Yet another reason I feel we need a more solid DM to balance things.

y va marquer

Injuries have meant that Wenger's been forced to shuffle our midfield to the extent that the weaknesses of players like Arteta have been amplified.

Qwiss

y va marquer wrote:
Injuries have meant that Wenger's been forced to shuffle our midfield to the extent that the weaknesses of players like Arteta have been amplified.

Artetas weakness have been amplified by Wengers selections but they haven't been forced. No one made him leave Flamini on the bench and put a young, inexperienced winger in the midfield instead.

As I said in the other thread decisions like that leave Arteta hung out to dry. Wenger has asked more of him than he's capable of far too often this season.

dreamlord

Agree with you Nela, I'm really tired of Santi. I honestly feel giving him a new contract was a mistake - he's already declining badly, and I don't see him playing at a good level once he's 30. At least Rosicky is still physically fit (when he's on the pitch, that is).

innervisionscm

qs! wrote:
y va marquer wrote:
Injuries have meant that Wenger's been forced to shuffle our midfield to the extent that the weaknesses of players like Arteta have been amplified.

Artetas weakness have been amplified by Wengers selections but they haven't been forced. No one made him leave Flamini on the bench and put a young, inexperienced winger in the midfield instead.

As I said in the other thread decisions like that leave Arteta hung out to dry. Wenger has asked more of him than he's capable of far too often this season.

I agree with this and wanted a Flamteta midfield. I guess where I disagree is that I think Wenger's decisions would hamper basically any holding player, not just Arteta. It's very hard to cover all that space by yourself, especially when the other team is gameplanning to counter and is doing so in numbers.

Qwiss

innervisionscm wrote:
qs! wrote:
Artetas weakness have been amplified by Wengers selections but they haven't been forced. No one made him leave Flamini on the bench and put a young, inexperienced winger in the midfield instead.

As I said in the other thread decisions like that leave Arteta hung out to dry. Wenger has asked more of him than he's capable of far too often this season.

I agree with this and wanted a Flamteta midfield. I guess where I disagree is that I think Wenger's decisions would hamper basically any holding player, not just Arteta. It's very hard to cover all that space by yourself, especially when the other team is gameplanning to counter and is doing so in numbers.

This is where we disagree. I think an out and out defensive mid who is fully focussed on defending and has more running in him would allow us to get away with some of the other decisions and weaknesses in the team.

IMO it'd be easier to sign say a Matic type than get a team with Ozil, Cazorla, Podolski, etc all defending as a unit.

innervisionscm

I don't think we need to get the attacking line pressing - we just need our fullbacks and B2B mid in reasonable defensive positions instead of pretending like we can keep the ball like Barcelona. And preferably our B2B mid isn't a raw 20-year-old winger.

Doc

Sign a proper DM non of this duo role bs, doesn't mean he has to be technical shit.. But that's hhis job to defend in midfield.. Should of signed one in the summer but wenger bottled it & even if we do get one next summer he will bottle another position... Wenger will never learn

Clrnc

qs! wrote:
Nela wrote:
I don't see the point of Santi anymore.

Last year's Santi? Sure.

But the current Santi is slow, gives away the ball, doesn't see the whole pitch. He's a defensive liability and barely adds anything going forward.

The stats from the last few weeks show him to give the ball away less than any other player.

I feel he adds a lot going forward and while I wouldn't mind getting someone like Reus to replace him I think bare a top signing like that he'd be hard to improve upon.

Defensively he is a liability, much like Ozil. Yet another reason I feel we need a more solid DM to balance things.

In the first half when he was playing centrally very deep he kept giving the ball away, but in the 2nd half he was one of our better players when he was further forward.

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