The Wenger Thread!: Page 92 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Wenger Thread!

Bold Tone

@[deleted], re:shitsters.
Fortunately, we have now got rid of most of them and the correction at board level was probably made years ago, but there has been the cost of them, naturally, running down the lucrative deals they have with us and thereby blocking a squad place during this time.

Biggus

Articles?
We don't need no stinking articles to know Wenger is shit at tacticing.

Qwiss

Burnwinter wrote:
It's not implausible they think that (past players have said similar, and lots of us do obviously) but there really needs to be a sourced quote or two if you're going to put stuff like that in an article.

Well if someone is leaking that I think its better to not go on the record.

I wouldn't be surprised if its true though. They've been dismantled lately and Wenger changes nothing. Every other manager in the world would be making big changes if they were on a run like ours after being top.

goon

Whoever it is should sort their own shit out before telling Wenger what to do. What the fuck would focusing on the opposition do? Giving the ball away on the half way line isn't an opposition specific issue, Vermaelen letting the ball run in the area and then not being alert for the rebound isn't an opposition specific problem, Lukaku scoring from the wing after pathetic attempts at defending from Nacho and Verm again is not an opposition specific issue. Same with all the other games, say what you like about tactics but every single one of those games has been riddled by pathetic individual errors. It's like we've got 11 Clichy's out there who could do something stupid at any moment.

Wenger needs to smash these guys around the head and get them to focus on what they need to do, instead it looks like he's trying to protect them. His mentality is all wrong and it's transferring over to the players. They look like they're fucking sleep walking half the time, how they perform almost depends on how the game is going.

Patters

Burnwinter wrote:
It's not implausible they think that (past players have said similar, and lots of us do obviously) but there really needs to be a sourced quote or two if you're going to put stuff like that in an article.

Think it was Fabregas that said Wenger didn't put much focus on the opposition, whereas at Barcelona he claimed he improved tactically. I don't think he said it to criticise, just that Wenger wants to work more on our game.

And that seems to back our inability to handle situations where something goes slightly wrong. Everyone panics and it's a cricket score after 20 mins.

The thing that I don't understand about this sort of thing is that - without doubt - Wenger's the smartest manager in the league. You can tell that by the way he talks and reasons things out at least to the press. You'd think he'd be the first to spot patterns of weaknesses and change things quickly.

goon

I actually like that philosophy, when it works it's great, but you need to have a damn good squad to pull it off and a damn good playing style. Not Giroud, Podolski and Flamteta.

Bold Tone

I know Vermaelen is going but am i being premature in writing off Monreal as a LB?
Maybe he should be converted to a left sided defensive midfielder as neither Caz nor Pod protect Gibbs and, both, are too peripheral to the attack.

ludovicvanzis

Football in general is more tactical on the continent. But also, I think he has all these tactial responsibilities at Barca because over there he's just another player. If you look at the way Messi plays you get the feeling they just let him loose and enjoy the show.

Wenger does give out instructions, just not to the genius players. I've noticed patterns in the way we play. For example kicking the ball long to Sagna who is on the half way line is something that only started happening 2 or 3 years ago and it's quite effective. It was actually a big factor in why we dominated Bayern at the start of that game. Alaba didn't know what was going on which can only mean Pep didn't do his homework.

Biggus

Patters wrote:
The thing that I don't understand about this sort of thing is that - without doubt - Wenger's the smartest manager in the league. You can tell that by the way he talks and reasons things out at least to the press. You'd think he'd be the first to spot patterns of weaknesses and change things quickly.

Well then hes obviously not as smart as you think he is.

Kurtz

If Wenger is so bad then why does he keep getting praise, especially by other managers and football execs? You'd think residual fawning over his past successes would have disappeared by now. Is it recognition of our (earlier not now) financial restrictions? Is it because they want the Arsenal job? Honestly I haven't seen a top tier manager say Wenger is tactically not up to par ( wind ups and people with obvious grudges like Mourinho and Pulis don't count).

Gunner89

What do you expect other managers to say? Rivalries/Vendettas aside no manager is going to insult any other manager. They are only going to praise him be it Wenger or somebody else.

Not getting a striker in the summer was negligence and if we don't get top 4 because of it than it's a sack-worthy offence.

Burnwinter

Patters wrote:
Think it was Fabregas that said Wenger didn't put much focus on the opposition, whereas at Barcelona he claimed he improved tactically. I don't think he said it to criticise, just that Wenger wants to work more on our game.

Yep, pretty sure it was Fabregas, but after what I said I didn't want to half-remember it without a link.

Based on results you'd say Wenger's tactical methods have been good for getting a consistent result over a season, but they've been bad in specific situations.

SpeedTouch

Kurtz wrote:
If Wenger is so bad then why does he keep getting praise, especially by other managers and football execs? You'd think residual fawning over his past successes would have disappeared by now. Is it recognition of our (earlier not now) financial restrictions? Is it because they want the Arsenal job? Honestly I haven't seen a top tier manager say Wenger is tactically not up to par ( wind ups and people with obvious grudges like Mourinho and Pulis don't count).

Why would they? It's the same reason so many of our fans will defend Wenger, and the same reason why United fans were so reluctant to take Fergie to task, because at some point a manager or player will gain such a relationship with football where people will simply give them the benefit of the doubt no matter what. Messi, Gerrard etc. have the same issue

SpeedTouch

Patters wrote:
Burnwinter wrote:
It's not implausible they think that (past players have said similar, and lots of us do obviously) but there really needs to be a sourced quote or two if you're going to put stuff like that in an article.

Think it was Fabregas that said Wenger didn't put much focus on the opposition, whereas at Barcelona he claimed he improved tactically. I don't think he said it to criticise, just that Wenger wants to work more on our game.

And that seems to back our inability to handle situations where something goes slightly wrong. Everyone panics and it's a cricket score after 20 mins.

The thing that I don't understand about this sort of thing is that - without doubt - Wenger's the smartest manager in the league. You can tell that by the way he talks and reasons things out at least to the press. You'd think he'd be the first to spot patterns of weaknesses and change things quickly.

Yep, it was Fabregas. Wenger in general gives his players more freedom than other managers because he believes they should rely on their natural player intelligence. It's the same reason why we tend to lack shape and are much less rigid than other teams both going forward and in attack, and its also one of the reasons why he accumulates so many of the same attacking midfielders.

Bold Tone

SpeedTouch wrote:
Kurtz wrote:
If Wenger is so bad then why does he keep getting praise, especially by other managers and football execs? You'd think residual fawning over his past successes would have disappeared by now. Is it recognition of our (earlier not now) financial restrictions? Is it because they want the Arsenal job? Honestly I haven't seen a top tier manager say Wenger is tactically not up to par ( wind ups and people with obvious grudges like Mourinho and Pulis don't count).

Why would they? It's the same reason so many of our fans will defend Wenger, and the same reason why United fans were so reluctant to take Fergie to task, because at some point a manager or player will gain such a relationship with football where people will simply give them the benefit of the doubt no matter what. Messi, Gerrard etc. have the same issue

Take Fergie to task for what?
As for Messi and Gerrard, it's normal for their fans to love them and us hate them the better they play.
Take monkeybale of the spuds, for example.

evoh

Tactical planing goes beyond just kicking it to our best wide player in the air from GKs.

Wenger looks out of his depth when faced with an issue and we hardly ever prepare for opposition unless it is Barca. When was the last time you saw him address an emerging issue in a game such as the way everton used mirallas and lukaku?

SpeedTouch

Bold Tone wrote:
SpeedTouch wrote:
Why would they? It's the same reason so many of our fans will defend Wenger, and the same reason why United fans were so reluctant to take Fergie to task, because at some point a manager or player will gain such a relationship with football where people will simply give them the benefit of the doubt no matter what. Messi, Gerrard etc. have the same issue

Take Fergie to task for what?
As for Messi and Gerrard, it's normal for their fans to love them and us hate them the better they play.
Take monkeybale of the spuds, for example.

To criticize him. My point was that people become so attached to certain players and managers, they will defend them regardless of what happens just out of nostalgia and the relationship between the manager and the fans. You don't want to hurt the managers/players you like so much, it's too emotional for everyone to do so.

I think for many Arsenal fans, they find it emotionally difficult to part with Wenger. It's like dumping your girlfriend

ludovicvanzis

evoh wrote:
Tactical planing goes beyond just kicking it to our best wide player in the air from GKs.

We've clearly developed a way of playing through Sagna that takes advantage of his fantastic qualities. If any other manager did it you'd be praising it (if you even noticed it) but because it's Wenger you dismiss it.

evoh wrote:
Wenger looks out of his depth when faced with an issue and we hardly ever prepare for opposition unless it is Barca. When was the last time you saw him address an emerging issue in a game such as the way everton used mirallas and lukaku?

The last time we didn't have everyone injured and he actually had a choice to make. Ever noticed how he uses Rosicky mainly in certain types of games?

Rex

His tactical tweaks mainly consist of playing certain players within a rigid system. He hardly ever CHANGES anything. In the Everton game at 2-0 down, most managers would have at least tried to change something by chucking on another striker next to the one already playing. Not our Wenger.

Could you ever see him trying something new like Guardiola did the other night? I mean, it takes serious balls to have your fullbacks play central midfield in attack! Not that I am saying he should try that particular thing with our FBs, but he never, ever sets his team up to expose weaknesses in the opposition.

ludovicvanzis

It takes no balls to move around ridiculously talented, intelligent and confident footballers. I could do it.

What changes would you have liked Wenger to make? Chuck Sanogo next to Giroud? There actuallly was a game this season, i can't remember against who, where we were trailing and Wenger took off Arteta and put on Bendtner. It was a terrible and it didn't work and obviously Wenger thought the same because he hasn't done it since.

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