The Wenger Thread!: Page 73 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Wenger Thread!

Bold Tone

i just "wanted to continue assuming" :8)

Conor

Biggus wrote:
Indeed.

Btw has anyone found a picture of the mysterious Dick Law I haven't seen one yet, I'm not convinced he really exists.

On Wenger's right.

speedy

Biggus wrote:
😆
It's incredible isn't it?
The mental loops people will go through to lie to themselves to avoid what they know in their heart is the correct conclusion.

I've said I not fussed either way for years. I know he has shown strengths and failures. Your the one with mental loops and constant insults at a man that dragged us through a very successful period then a very difficult period where the stadium cost money. Yes it did cost money.
Now we have money we can hire a different manager with a far easier job or keep Wenger and watch him built a great squad. He's not the best manager in the world but he'll built a great team.
Dennis was expensive, Henry was expensive, Reyes was expensive. The frugal spending started with the stadium and when we got over the hump ended. We have ozil and money now.

It's not me that creates mental loops I see his strengths and failures you think he's an accountant turnip. Only one of us is creating there own one sided reality.

Biggus

Conor wrote:
On Wenger's right.

The fat prick that looks like Paulie Cicero above Gazidis?

speedy wrote:
Biggus wrote:
😆
It's incredible isn't it?
The mental loops people will go through to lie to themselves to avoid what they know in their heart is the correct conclusion.

I've said I not fussed either way for years. I know he has shown strengths and failures. Your the one with mental loops and constant insults at a man that dragged us through a very successful period then a very difficult period where the stadium cost money. Yes it did cost money.
Now we have money we can hire a different manager with a far easier job or keep Wenger and watch him built a great squad. He's not the best manager in the world but he'll built a great team.
Dennis was expensive, Henry was expensive, Reyes was expensive. The frugal spending started with the stadium and when we got over the hump ended. We have ozil and money now.

It's not me that creates mental loops I see his strengths and failures you think he's an accountant turnip. Only one of us is creating there own one sided reality.

Wenger usually gets all the credit for the stadium, from conception to planning, finance, construction and laying of the fine pitch, I don't know about that but I certainly doubt it was worth it, what has it gained us so far?
We've lost nearly 10 years of competitiveness and haven't one a fucking bean while here.
Chelsea and Liverpool seem to be managing fine without a great big hulking white elephant, I think it was only a matter of time before we were taken over by a benevolent Oligarch and I still can't see what the problem with that would have been, could he be any worse than Kroenke?
But thats water under the bridge, we are where we are now.

And btw Bergkamp was already here before Wenger, yes football did exist then.

speedy

Yes Wenger was in the pipeline and told them to sign Dennis dein said as much later on.

We weren't expecting the stadium to benifit us short term ! With huge repayments, You genuinely thought we'd be better of initially ? Really ?

Liverpool have investment from owners so do chelsea, were self sustainable.

Wenger didn't pick the owners. So it's irrelevant to this thread apart from the fact we had far less money for the manager to spend.

Conor

Actually, I meant Wenger's left. Sorry 😆

Kurtz

Arsenal want to become a self sustaining titan like Bayern. We need to win however to obtain the clout, commercial deals and fan base this strategy requires.

kamikaze

speedy wrote:
the stadium cost money. Yes it did cost money.

no it didnt. unless your definition of "to lose" is "to gain or acquire more".

Burnwinter

Come on Kami, don't be obtuse. The stadium was a massive capital investment intended to permanently increase revenue. It cost money and now it makes money.

That we're not now a financially dominant force in the PL is obviously due to external factors that arrived after we'd committed to Ashburton Grove.

Speculating that "if we'd only been more of a rustbucket club of faded glory like Manchester City, we would've been a better target for some Russian oligarch" as Biggus does above is kind of absurd in my opinion.

So we should've actively run the club like shit to attract a "rescuer" ... ? No. If we had we might just as likely have ended up being Spurs.

Off the field, we are just a reasonably well run club that hasn't been touched by the fickle hand of financial doping. Wenger can't help that. On the field, we are sucking horribly against good opposition, and that's where his failures become unacceptable.

kamikaze

i'm not being obtuse at all.

the baseline to measure whether it cost money or made money would've been staying at highbury, yes? well, our bottom line was better from day 1 at the emirates, compared to what it would've been at highbury. it only made more money available for player expenditure (payroll + net transfer spend). it is not true in any sense of the word, that the move to the emirates "cost" us money.

this is the greatest lie of the cult of wenger. during this entire 9 yr period, we've been either the 3rd or 4th richest club in the lge, and we have finished either 3rd or 4th. that's not an incredible accomplishment for which we should forever be grateful to wenger, that is merely doing the expected.

everything after your 1st sentence i'll assume is aimed at something stupid that biggus said.

Burnwinter

Ok.

I'm going to assume everything before your last sentence was some unconvincing justification of why several hundred million pounds of expenditure isn't a cost.

Biggus

speedy wrote:
Yes Wenger was in the pipeline and told them to sign Dennis dein said as much later on.

No No No you can fuck off, you Wengerite's have Vieira Henry Pires Overmars Campbell you can't have Bergy he was before Wengers time.

DD. Hey Arsene, I have a chance to sign Bergkamp.
Do you want him?
AW. Umm oui why not.....😆

Burnwinter wrote:
Come on Kami, don't be obtuse. The stadium was a massive capital investment intended to permanently increase revenue. It cost money and now it makes money.

That we're not now a financially dominant force in the PL is obviously due to external factors that arrived after we'd committed to Ashburton Grove.

Speculating that "if we'd only been more of a rustbucket club of faded glory like Manchester City, we would've been a better target for some Russian oligarch" as Biggus does above is kind of absurd in my opinion.

How is it being absurd to wish it would have been us the Abu Dhabi consortium (or someone else) would had invested in?
We were the most successful team in London, much more glamorous with greater potential than city.

Burnwinter wrote:
So we should've actively run the club like shit to attract a "rescuer" ... ? No. If we had we might just as likely have ended up being Spurs.

Now who's being absurd?
Spurs are not a poor club they have plenty of money to waste, they're just run by incompetents with more money than sense. 😃

kamikaze wrote:
i'm not being obtuse at all.

the baseline to measure whether it cost money or made money would've been staying at highbury, yes? well, our bottom line was better from day 1 at the emirates, compared to what it would've been at highbury. it only made more money available for player expenditure (payroll + net transfer spend). it is not true in any sense of the word, that the move to the emirates "cost" us money.

this is the greatest lie of the cult of wenger. during this entire 9 yr period, we've been either the 3rd or 4th richest club in the lge, and we have finished either 3rd or 4th. that's not an incredible accomplishment for which we should forever be grateful to wenger, that is merely doing the expected.

everything after your 1st sentence i'll assume is aimed at something stupid that biggus said.

I never said anything as stupid as 'it is not true in any sense of the word, that the move to the emirates "cost" us money.'
I've never denied the stadium placed an enormous debt burden on the club (and fans who pay through the nose for it), my issue is- Was it worth it?
Now I must admit that wisdom is great in hindsight, 10 years ago most of us were enthusiastic about the new stadium but little did we know how terrible the cost would be.

Biggus

Conor wrote:
Actually, I meant Wenger's left. Sorry 😆

Are you sure?

Claudius

People need to stop shifting blame to the stadium. We had several profitable years. We could've spent on players. There were times a small investment would've had a massive impact. Keeping Gilberto. Bringing in Anelka on the cheap, etc. these are moves that could've bolstered us. But dogma did us in. The stadium is a convenient excuse for people who refuse to assess who we bought, how we split wages between vets and kids, Almunia, match day tactics, team motivation, etc.

Burnwinter

Biggus wrote:
We've lost nearly 10 years of competitiveness and haven't one a fucking bean while here.
Chelsea and Liverpool seem to be managing fine without a great big hulking white elephant, I think it was only a matter of time before we were taken over by a benevolent Oligarch and I still can't see what the problem with that would have been, could he be any worse than Kroenke?

That's where you were being absurd. You implied that careful financial management, and building Ashburton Grove foreclosed the possibility of us being acquired by a billionaire with looser pursestrings than Kroenke. Makes no real sense does it?

Claudius

He has an AND condition, Burnsy.
Don't build stadium AND sell to Usmanov

Biggus

I agree with you Claudius that the apologists have milked it for all its worth, so in that context if you were told in 2005 that we would not win a trophy for nearly a decade because of the mill stone around our necks- Would you still have been so supportive of it?

Burnwinter

The stadium's not the reason we haven't won a trophy. We've had the money to shoot for one for years. The rivals you're whinging about such as Liverpool are desperate to expand their own stadia.

I believe Wenger's aversion to risking our financial position and the reality of our overall level of wealth are the two main reasons.

Biggus

Burnwinter wrote:
Biggus wrote:
We've lost nearly 10 years of competitiveness and haven't one a fucking bean while here.
Chelsea and Liverpool seem to be managing fine without a great big hulking white elephant, I think it was only a matter of time before we were taken over by a benevolent Oligarch and I still can't see what the problem with that would have been, could he be any worse than Kroenke?

That's where you were being absurd. You implied that careful financial management, and building Ashburton Grove foreclosed the possibility of us being acquired by a billionaire with looser pursestrings than Kroenke. Makes no real sense does it?

Well I'm no financial expert (I wish Lagos hadn't been driven away) but I'd imagine that the debt taken on deterred potential investors making it less attractive for them.

Burnwinter

The types of investors you're dreaming about are actively undertaking massive capital works at the clubs they've purchased, so I can't see why they'd be fussed about them already being in place.

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