The Wenger Thread!: Page 124 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Wenger Thread!

Timbob

Biggus wrote:
We won it

Qwiss

Kel Varnsen wrote:
It was the fa cup. Great win and all, but the only thing that matters are the pl and cl.

I'll never understand this sort of disregard for the FA cup.

Burnwinter

General Mirth wrote:
Actually thought his tactics and substitutions on the day of the cup final were spot on, it's his inability to get the squad switched on for the big games that costs us.

He needed to get a few things right after we went two down in the first quarter hour. Again.

Also, he might have made the right calls but he was still subbing on Sanogo, a player who has never scored for us, in search of an equaliser.

goon

And it worked.

Anyway, it's certainly beats putting Robert Huth up front.

Biggus wrote:
We won it despite his woeful tactics not because of them.

5 FA Cups and 3 league titles isn't bad for a man with woeful tactics, who doesn't spend, leaves massive gaps in the squad and is happy with 4th place.

Qwiss

Only one of those in the last 9 years though. Wengers career at Arsensl has been made up of 2 very different halfs.

Are you confident he can win a league title in the next 3 years?

Burnwinter

otfgoon wrote:
5 FA Cups and 3 league titles isn't bad for a man with woeful tactics, who doesn't spend, leaves massive gaps in the squad and is happy with 4th place.

And nine years of blind loyalty from the fans isn't bad for a man who's only won us one FA Cup.

goon

On the contrary, my eyes are open to his flaws and his positive traits. I'd argue that pretending he's to blame for everything bad and stumbled upon everything good is the perspective that's lacking clear sight.

qs! wrote:
Only one of those in the last 9 years though. Wengers career at Arsenal has been made up of 2 very different halfs.
Are you confident he can win a league title in the next 3 years?

I am. Whatever you think of Wenger's tactical ability, the majority of this squad is full of quality and heading into it's prime or is already there and has been playing together for a while, that's something you can't buy. We just need a good summer... and that's where the doubt creeps in but I'm still fairly confident we'll do enough to give ourselves a decent chance next year.

Burnwinter

otfgoon wrote:
On the contrary, my eyes are open to his flaws and his positive traits. I'd argue that pretending he's to blame for everything bad and stumbled upon everything good is the perspective that's lacking clear sight.

Wenger hardly earnt his reputation for underinvestment, tactical naivety and scraping into fourth place between 1997 and 2005. The rhetoric in your previous post was desperate so I responded in kind ...

I do try to take a balanced view of Wenger's work as our manager, which is why I'm sceptical of all this talk of a renaissance when we've only been tracking according to our post 2005 SNAFU.

2013 was a brilliant year for Wenger, but if 2014 continues as it has begun we'll be in about seventh spot at Christmas.

goon

The rhetoric in Biggus' post was desperate so I responded in kind...

I wasn't accusing you of lacking balance either.

But back on Wenger, only reason I expect change in our success isn't because I think Wenger's changed, but the club's circumstances have changed. One FA Cup win isn't enough to signify a change in the trend but personally I don't think it's a coincidence that we've finally won something after a summer where we keep and best players in the squad and then add to it rather than selling the best ones and adding youth or mediocrity.

Burnwinter

Look, there's reasons to be cheerful, relatively speaking. Think we can all agree on that.

I personally believe zero trophies and a contest for third and fourth place is currently the likelihood for 2014-15. What do you think?

Rex

Biggus wrote:
We won it despite his woeful tactics not because of them.

Think I remember you being of the opinion that winning is all that counts, regardless of how you do it?

Biggus

Burnwinter™ wrote:
Look, there's reasons to be cheerful, relatively speaking. Think we can all agree on that.

Indeed- I said before that I wear my Arsenal shirts with pride now, I don't have to feel people think I'm some contrarian hipster
But I don't feel indebted to Wenger and that he somehow masterminded this triumph.
We beat Wigan and Hull not because we had better tactics but because we had better players and better luck, if we'd given a stronger side a 2 goal lead in the final I don't think we'd be having this sort of discussion.
@ Rex, yes winning is all that matters at the end of the day not how we won it, I suppose some neutrals will view this final as a sort of exciting 3-2 classic comeback but we know the truth don't we?

Rohit

Why underplay any aspect of the triumph? We were given big sides before the semi and we did exceedingly well. We beat Spurs by playing Walcott up top and putting in arguably our most fluent attacking display last season. We beat Liverpool a weak after losing 5-1 to them at Anfield and drawing with United in midweek. We beat Everton convincingly with a masterclass display from Ozil who was chastised and under extreme pressure post his Bayern penalty miss. Why question what would have happened if the final was against a better team, one, and what would have happened had we gone behind, two?

Why not simply give everyone credit for coming back into it - players and manager and for their journey to the final?

mohan

Rohit wrote:
Why underplay any aspect of the triumph? We were given big sides before the semi and we did exceedingly well. We beat Spurs by playing Walcott up top and putting in arguably our most fluent attaching display last season. We beat Liverpool a weak after losing 5-1 to them at Anfield and drawing with United in midweek. We beat Everton convincingly with a masterclass display from Ozil who was chastised and under extreme pressure post his Bayern penalty miss. Why question what would have happened if the final was against a better team, one, and what would have happened had we gone behind, two?

Why not simply give everyone credit for coming back into it - players and manager and for their journey to the final?

Because that wouldn't suit the idea that Wenger is also responsible.

Biggus

Exactly- I'm not underplaying it, I just refuse to give any credit to the person who almost sabotaged our season at nearly every turn including not playing our best goalkeeper in the final.

Rohit

So our manager gets no credit for any of those wins but the blame was his IF we had lost any of those matches. So basically, the players won the Cup for us despite the manager. Ok, got it.

JazzG

If we win it is down to the players, if we lose then the manager is to blame. Not that hard to understand! 😉

innervisionscm

qs! wrote:
Are you confident he can win a league title in the next 3 years?

I think we will, yes.

Biggus

No one really knew what would happen as regards Wengers contract especially if the final was lost, nearly the whole forum love or hate him belived his time was up.
Now those who always wanted him to stay including those who derided the FA cup are emboldened and are coming out of the closet again proclaiming this the dawn of a new era.

I never thought his decision was dependant on the result, he would have signed on anyway and then fled to Brazil to avoid the furour if we had've lost.

Burnwinter

JazzG wrote:
If we win it is down to the players, if we lose then the manager is to blame. Not that hard to understand! 😉

You're right guys. Wenger should get a special medal of honour for getting us into Europe each year, but we can't fairly assign him any responsibility for us never getting any further than that.

Because that's down to the board, opposition pitches, departing star players, injuries and the fact there are never, ever any available signings that would "significantly" improve us.

He better get the chequebook out this summer. As far as I'm concerned another trophy and a minimum second place in the league is his new KPI, excuses be damned.

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