The Wenger Thread!: Page 109 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Wenger Thread!

Rohit

We don't need scouts to find Ozils of the world. We just need the willingness to buy them.

Wenger is still one of the best at getting the Koscielnys. His aversion to supplement them with the class players everyone knows about had been his and our undoing, not some change in times.

speedy

Wenger can and will buy and make great players that's beyond debate he always builds great squads. If ffp slows down the other clubs we can afford to keep our players. Paying big enough wages to keep the stars has been the problem.

Gazza M

Rex wrote:
Or, we just need better players to make the style work again. The same style, basically, proved very successful in his first 500 games. I think it is fair to say that the quality of the team has been worse since then.

the only way wenger will ever win real trophies again is by having the most talented team playing a style which suits them, like we used to. pure talent has to compensate for wengers lack of tactical preparation. attracting the level of talent required means spending alot of money, imo more than he will ever be willing to spend. my belief is that arsenal will remain a day late and a buck short as long as he's in charge.

im genuinely gutted he's staying on for another 2 of wheel spinning, but in saying that there are no other real candidates available. would love someone like ancelotti at the helm.

Rex

Can you imagine us 4 years ago signing a top central mid from the team which had just won the WC? That's what we did with Gilberto. Can you imagine us 4 years ago signing a world class CB from a rival by offering world class wages? That's what we did with Sol Campbell.

Wenger is still top class when it concerns finding top talents, and he is still top class at developing them. Our problems when it has come to team building 'in the barren years' has been to supplement the promising players with top class pros like Sol and Gilberto. When you can integrate the up and coming players with class ones like that - then, yes, I think Wenger's brand of football can still win trophies.

Really, it isn't like 'Wengerball' is a secret; there are plenty of top teams which play pass and move football coupled with quick counter attacking. It just so happens that when Wenger introduced it in England it was new there. 3 or 4 class additions to the squad we have, and I am confident Wenger can win trophies consistently again.

I just have very little trust in the man to get us to that point though! If he this summer makes Vermaelen stay, signs a class RB Sagna replacement, a top class striker, and another class player - then I may come around and think he still has it in him to really go for it. However, last summer he screwed up, and then again in January, so I am not exactly holding my breath here.

awooga83

The recent farce around FFP sites that whatever the intention, the governing bodies are pretty much powerless to make it a reality. We will have to adapt to the fact these but money tens week exist and will get around whatever legislation is brought in to chev them.

That means to complete we need to change up, fine are the days when Wenger had this unique scouting advantage, now everybody knows about any payer with a hint of potential what with digital media, you tube etc. That advantage we once had has been eroded and it will often come down to money. At this stage we seem unable or unwilling to try to compete on that front.

goon

Pet peev of mine when you hear people say Wenger needs great players to compensate for his lack of tactical nous. The reality is every manager needs great players to effectively execute their vision.

Comes down to the same old flawed logic we've been hearing for years.. defensive = great manager/tactics, attacking = great players.

Gazza M

tactical preparation and tactial nous are dfferent things. wenger has plenty of know how, but has never been a proponent of tactical preparation based on the opponent. our pathetic results away from home against top sides have shown that, and not just this season either. hence why he needs higher quality players to execute his vision to the maximum. these players cost too much, or take prohibitively long to develop. we'll remain this limbo while he's at the helm.

goon

But focusing on your own game and maximising the output of the players you have in your disposal is a tactic in itself (whether or not its a good one is another matter). One that's far more demanding than most.

Where Wenger has failed is having a philosophy, tactic, style of play that doesn't match up to the players at his disposal.

ludovicvanzis

Team didn't show up against Milan in the first leg and dominated in the second.

Next season they didn't show up against Bayern and won at the allianz arena.

The signs have been there for years that these players are afraid of greatness. Naught to do with tactics.

There's no technical reason they shouldn't have been able to execute the tactial plan in the big matches. They just crumbled and at that point tactics become irrelevant.

Simeone congratulated his players' mothers for giving them big cojones, that's what it takes to come out of nowhere as a player and win on the biggest stage.

Biggus

ludovic van zis wrote:
There's no technical reason they shouldn't have been able to execute the tactial plan in the big matches. They just crumbled and at that point tactics

😆 That's some fucked up reasoning.

Gazza M

or they just werent good enough to begin with. being both less talented and under briefed tactically than the next guy usually wont well end for you. imo our lack of mental strength and belieeeeef is a red herring. both these things are fed by having better class of player in the side.

Qwiss

They're not untalented though. I think our current tactics are stifling a lot of our players. Can you really say Ozil, Wilshere, Chamberlain, Podolski, Cazorla, etc are really playing to their best in our current set up? The lack of balance in our midfield is staggering. They neither attack nor defend particularly well. Thats all tactical.

Biggus

Occum's razor Gazza, it's more likely that there was one shit tactical plan than eleven shit players.

Ray

We need to be more flexible with our formation. City easily switch between 442 and 451 we are way too fixated on sticking to it. Podolski as a second striker scores more goals compared to podolski on the left wing having to defend back.

goon

Rayman wrote:
We need to be more flexible with our formation. City easily switch between 442 and 451 we are way too fixated on sticking to it. Podolski as a second striker scores more goals compared to podolski on the left wing having to defend back.

Same goes for Ozil.

Qwiss

Rayman wrote:
We need to be more flexible with our formation. City easily switch between 442 and 451 we are way too fixated on sticking to it. Podolski as a second striker scores more goals compared to podolski on the left wing having to defend back.

They sort of do now. It took them a while though at the start of the season where they dropped a lot of silly points at the start of the season while they were perfecting it. That was Pelligrinis first few months though, its to be expected.

Gazza M

qs! wrote:
They're not untalented though. I think our current tactics are stifling a lot of our players. Can you really say Ozil, Wilshere, Chamberlain, Podolski, Cazorla, etc are really playing to their best in our current set up? The lack of balance in our midfield is staggering. They neither attack nor defend particularly well. Thats all tactical.

was referring to ludos post about our performances against milan and bayern last year.

with the current squad i just dont think theres been real stategy in how the squad has been put together. who in their right mind buys ozil and puts a striker like giroud in front of him? no amount of matchday tweaking makes that anything other than a shit sandwich. it comes back to the point of having the best players, playing a style which suits them. right now we have neither of those things. last summer was our first stable one in terms of player exits, and the first in our new era of spending. the best we could come up with was a hail mary deal for a player that doesnt actually fit that well. i expect more of this scattergun bs in this window.

y va marquer

I think the players have to take as much blame as Wenger for the capitulation to both Liverpool and Chelsea.
Their lack of focus and nerve from ko was inexplicable, yes Wenger should have prepped them, fired them up etc etc but the team we fielded against both was full of experienced players who should have known to focus themselves as well.
Per admitted as much in a recent interview.

Gazza M

general question - is anyone here glad he's signing on and believes he'll make the adjustments to make us challengers? (forget tactics, he's more likely to sign cavani for 60m than adjust his matchday preparation. its all about recruitment now)

Biggus

Yeah, we were just a bit unlucky that everyone had a crap game at the same time.

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