The Wenger Thread!: Page 77 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Wenger Thread!

ludovicvanzis

It's a mystery.

JazzG

Klaus wrote:
Aye, we ended up looking like morons. Not because we bid £1 over 40 million though but because we kept dragging our feet while other targets went elsewhere. So much work should have been done already when the window opened. The transfer window is only a registration period. There's nothing that prohibits two clubs from negotiating during the season. We should have been working hard on bringing in Cavani since he made it clear in january last year that he would move, for instance. No one even approached Napoli with a bid apart from PSG.

Despite them being all bullish now there is no doubt Liverpool were open to selling Suarez. They kept mentioning the Cavani fee and they even tried to activate Diego Costa's buy out clause. They wanted to do business but weren't gonna let us mess them about or let him go on our terms. Our stupid bid just inflamed the situation, so unprofessional it was unreal. We shouldn't have knowledge of that clause so they could of tried to get us in trouble for that but if we had followed our bid quickly with a £45m bid I think they would talked. I reckon close to £50m and they would of sold up. Without all his antics he was worth that money so why not just act like a big club and get the fucking deal done. Talk afterwards of our lot willing to offer more but I don't think we were, we believed that clause existed so wanted to pay that. Just like the Liverpool owner bullshitting now about how they turned us down despite the clause to make himself look good, we are doing the same about how we would offer more but they wouldn't sell.

Napoli did confirm that City made an offer but they only wanted the full buyout clause figure of €63m. It sounded like City either made a lower offer or they tried to add some players in to the deal. There were talks to Chelsea being interested as well but at that money, they were also confident of getting Rooney though.

evoh

otfgoon wrote:
evoh wrote:
Ok so we are tottenham now are we? Fuck me its like everyone has horror story for every situation.

Replace wenger, you get moyes.

Spend debt on players, you become Leeds.

Spend £100m, you get soldado etc.

If Wenger can't find the players we need then its his problem with looking as they are certainly out there. You can't honestly believe there are no players out there who wouldn't improve this team?

Jesus relax, I never said any of that. Nor did I say Wenger shouldn't be able to find players.

The point is unless you have unlimited funds, you need to spend your money carefully. You can't for example, spend 25m on Benteke and then say 'fuck it we'll try again' if it doesn't work out.

And of course there are players who'd improve this team, but when you're competing with sides who have Yaya Toure and Aguero in their side then we need to bring in players to compete with that, not simply find an improvement on Giroud.

Your point was about how easy it is to waste money, referencing tottenham. I think we should be happy to waste money as you can't get them all right can you? You can sign Andy Carrol and Luis Suarez in a window, one shit, one world class. It is how it goes.

We need to be willing to make mistakes in the transfer market and move one. Way it is at the moment is that whether we make a mistake or not, we end up playing the player for 2 years straight with little progress. Plus we put them on a huge wage that makes them unmovable, something that continues to be a problem here.

evoh

JazzG wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Aye, we ended up looking like morons. Not because we bid £1 over 40 million though but because we kept dragging our feet while other targets went elsewhere. So much work should have been done already when the window opened. The transfer window is only a registration period. There's nothing that prohibits two clubs from negotiating during the season. We should have been working hard on bringing in Cavani since he made it clear in january last year that he would move, for instance. No one even approached Napoli with a bid apart from PSG.

Despite them being all bullish now there is no doubt Liverpool were open to selling Suarez. They kept mentioning the Cavani fee and they even tried to activate Diego Costa's buy out clause. They wanted to do business but weren't gonna let us mess them about or let him go on our terms. Our stupid bid just inflamed the situation, so unprofessional it was unreal. We shouldn't have knowledge of that clause so they could of tried to get us in trouble for that but if we had followed our bid quickly with a £45m bid I think they would talked. I reckon close to £50m and they would of sold up. Without all his antics he was worth that money so why not just act like a big club and get the fucking deal done. Talk afterwards of our lot willing to offer more but I don't think we were, we believed that clause existed so wanted to pay that. Just like the Liverpool owner bullshitting now about how they turned us down despite the clause to make himself look good, we are doing the same about how we would offer more but they wouldn't sell.

Napoli did confirm that City made an offer but they only wanted the full buyout clause figure of €63m. It sounded like City either made a lower offer or they tried to add some players in to the deal. There were talks to Chelsea being interested as well but at that money, they were also confident of getting Rooney though.

Liverpool would have sold him if we were the first point of call in june. Deals could be made elsewhere and we could negotiate a settlement that got the player. Seems to me Wenger and the club came late to the deal on the basis of a release clause, embarrassed the club with a foolish bid, the accepted that all was lost because liverpool said so.

If you contrast liverppols actions to ours with RvP you can see how well keeping a player can work out. They would be fucked this year without Suarez and we would have won the title. The club have been messed around on two sized of a season changing transfer in two years, we really are quite toothless in the market.

goon

Again I don't completely disagree with you, it's his job to find someone here who is good enough and in the 4 windows since we sold van Persie he should have certainly been able to replace him, if not with a Suarez then someone promising who can turn into a top player ala Sturridge.

But it still doesn't mean you spend £25m on someone who you don't think is good enough, or you don't know is good enough, just because they're probably better than Giroud. That's not a mistake, that's just careless.

We've wasted plenty of money over the years buying substandard talent, Santos, Gervinho or even Giroud if you like. All the more reason to look for those who are not going to be a let down.

Biggus

Yep, hate those 25m players.

goon

Well you're not too fond of the £42m ones so that doesn't surprise me.

Gunner89

"There's plenty of positives to take from the game at the Etihad. But of course we must defend better

"We were 17 or 18 times top of the league this season. We need to continue to work well, we have been unlucky with injuries"

Unlucky with injuries excuse once again

Gazza M

Wenger thinks Arsenal were much more competitive at the Etihad than they were at Anfield or Stamford Bridge but he can see a trend in his team's approach.

"The only common thing I see is that maybe we were a bit too cautious or a bit on the back foot," said Wenger.

"The only other thing is that they were three games at 12.45pm. Do we have to change our preparation for a game at that time? I don’t think we do anything wrong because we have played some other games at 12.45pm and we did very well. Maybe it was a psychological factor, I don’t know."

there you have it. we were too cautious when our cbs were repeatedly caught in 3 on 2 counterattacks :\

someone file this mans paperwork :\

lorddulaarsenal

"I don't know"

Qwiss

Gazza M wrote:
Wenger thinks Arsenal were much more competitive at the Etihad than they were at Anfield or Stamford Bridge but he can see a trend in his team's approach.

"The only common thing I see is that maybe we were a bit too cautious or a bit on the back foot," said Wenger.

"The only other thing is that they were three games at 12.45pm. Do we have to change our preparation for a game at that time? I don’t think we do anything wrong because we have played some other games at 12.45pm and we did very well. Maybe it was a psychological factor, I don’t know."

there you have it. we were too cautious when our cbs were repeatedly caught in 3 on 2 counterattacks :\

someone file this mans paperwork :\

Trick is not to play any centre halves. Having them at all is overly cautious.

ludovicvanzis

I don't think Wenger meant overly cautious tactically (or in our positioning). I think he meant the way the players approached the game was with fear and too much respect for the opposition.

Or maybe not, can't remember the details of City away.

Qwiss

The City game should have ended 6-5 to them rather than 6-3 but we had a few really bad calls against us. We weren't cautious in any sense.

JazzG

I loved how he put down Scholes as well, the fucker was shy all these years and wouldn't shut his mouth up the other day though.

goon

I actually thought our approach against City was pretty good. Defended with numbers and also got forward. The issue in that game was some horrid individual performances and mistakes from the likes of Ozil, Nacho and the centre mids as well as the injury to Koscielny. Once it became 4-2 with limited time left the rest is pretty immaterial.

Still think we should be fair better against City, they neither press with any real tempo, nor do they attack with a great deal of pace, which is generally what we struggle against.

Qwiss

If Aguero is fit they'll attack with pace. No Kos is a problem too. Vermaelen is a mess.

Qwiss

"We have not given up believe me. It's our attitude tomorrow which will show that."

Queue a hammering.

kamikaze

tbf, I agree completely with scholes. might not like the player, but objectively, his observations ring true with what I see myself:

"midfield players with no discipline" and adding that "there are no leaders" at the north London club. He also accused Jack Wilshere of failing to reach the "next level."

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/28/arsene-wenger-arsenal-paul-scholes-title

Claudius

saw that yesterday, Kami. completely agree with your highlighted points. i'm not sure what is happening with Wilshere. hopefully, it is just the injuries and he grows into the best English player in due time.

kamikaze

Klaus wrote:
Burnwinter wrote:
Given the funds dedicated to our operations team and the sums of money involved in these transfers, it's a disgrace that we're bidding on star players without a forensic legal analysis of their contractual situation, based on the actual documents, in place.

I really don't think we did. No company in the world would ever do it and I don't think any football club would either. It doesn't make a lick of sense when you look at it from a business perspective.

I'm an attorney. It wouldn't cost much to have a solicitor read the contract and give an opinion on whether there is a release clause. If anything, it wouldn't make a lick of sense NOT to, considering the amount of the transfer fee (or the difference between Suarez's market value and the amount needed to activate his release clause).

This is pretty bread and butter stuff.

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