Gunner89 wrote:

People are talking about wingers but I think Wenger sees this squad as a world class striker and maybe a DM away from challenging.

Where his this myth that we need a DM, DM are nothing more than water carriers plus we have Mathieu Flamini.

Cazorla has been a dominant force so far this season. People underrating him a bit because he's diminutive and not that pacy perhaps.

Shinda wrote:

Gunner89 wrote:

People are talking about wingers but I think Wenger sees this squad as a world class striker and maybe a DM away from challenging.

Where his this myth that we need a DM, DM are nothing more than water carriers plus we have Mathieu Flamini.

Maybe because I don't make judgements about Flamini on the basis of half an hour of action and the fact that Wenger made a bid for Bender. Flamini has had multiple injury concerns in the last few years too. Arteta is getting older and his lack of mobility plus the fact that top opposition put a man on him usually leaves him nullified in big games.

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:

Reus is good but I think Theo is better

Theo is much better than he was a few years ago. Numbers-wise he's right up there, in English football at least. Doesn't visually have the same quality as Reus, but I wouldn't be surprised if his stats were similar or better

They're very similar in style and in terms of the numbers they produce. But Reus' all around game is far superior.

Honestly don't feel Reus is the one to pursue, despite him being a cracking player. Cazorla, Walcott, AOC and Podolski are good enough for a title winning side as your primary wide men. Add up and coming players like Gnabry and Ryo - I'd say we look pretty good for at least this and next season.

This is the same way I see Gundogan. I rate him, but obviously not as highly as some on here, but I feel he would be a direct competitor for Wilshere and Ramsey. Personally, I am well happy with those two.

We need a fucking striker! A top class one! Add another CB and a competent RB back up and the squad looks set. Despite Wenger having now found the key to the war chest, we aren't ever going to stockpile players like Chelski and Shitty.

I don't think I want us stockpiling players anyway. As you say a defender or 2 and a top class striker is where we need to focus.

that is fair.
striker, to slot ahead of HFB
3rd central defender, to slot ahead of Vermaelen
2nd right back, to slot ahead of Jenkinson

our money should be blown on a striker.

Agree with Rex and co. I think the need for a Gundogan or whoever is pretty much gone now and wouldn't pay any attention to links to him or Bender etc as i'm sure Wenger is happy with his midfield options.

However Reus could be an option for that striker role. Gervinho played there and it acually would have worked quite well if Gervinho could shoot and had brains. Our general play was good and we even seemed more fluid and dangerous at times but obviously the problem was that Gervinho just wasn't very good. I could see Reus doing a similar job and being a real success there. And the beauty of it is we could bring Giroud in for certain games and move Reus to any of the 3 spots behind the striker.

Burnwinter wrote:

The comparison itself is a bit weird, though.

Totally different players, but Cazorla will probably play on the left now that we've got Özil, and that also happens to be where Reus plays.

Seriously people are saying they don't want Reus and Gundogan?

Can't believe just one Ozil has left Arsenal fans purring.

That isn't really what anyone is saying though, is it?

Gunner89 wrote:

Shinda wrote:

Where his this myth that we need a DM, DM are nothing more than water carriers plus we have Mathieu Flamini.

Maybe because I don't make judgements about Flamini on the basis of half an hour of action and the fact that Wenger made a bid for Bender. Flamini has had multiple injury concerns in the last few years too. Arteta is getting older and his lack of mobility plus the fact that top opposition put a man on him usually leaves him nullified in big games.

Well Lars Bender is not a DM, he's a CM player or should a I say an all action box-to-box Midfield player.

I agree with Rex on Gundogun. As good as he is, he'd be a luxury.

Reus wouldn't though.

Reus (Poldi) - Ozil (Chamberlain) - Santi (Theo) is a brilliant lineup, all interchanable with the exception of Poldi. I don't think it's a luxury signing either, it would be a signing to give us one of the best offensive line-ups in Europe. You can say other areas are a bigger priority but sometimes you just have to take an opportunity when it jumps at you, like we did with Ozil.

In the next 2 windows I'd like a top striker, a right back and Reus. £70m should do it...

Armor wrote:

Agree with Rex and co. I think the need for a Gundogan or whoever is pretty much gone now and wouldn't pay any attention to links to him or Bender etc as i'm sure Wenger is happy with his midfield options.

There's less need for Gundogan since the arrival of Ozil, but Rex's stance on him was way before the acquisition of Ozil. He'd like us to buy an average(decent) player like Cabaye but he's opposed to a special player like Gundogan, weird. He seems to think of Gundogan as a weak CM with good passing skills but little defensive nous - he couldn't be much further away from the truth. Gundogan is about 6 foot tall with good upper body strengths, he isn't the fastest, therefore his game in CM is based on intelligent positioning and fierce tackling - similar to Arteta. Unlike say Wilshere, he's very comfortable as an AM, I saw him put in a MOTM performance against Bayern from an AM position few weeks ago. I can see him playing the holding role too as he gets older. He's an all-rounder who's got it all; great passing skills(probably the best 2 footed passer from CM in Europe), can dribble in tight spaces, good tactical understanding of the game, good vision etc I think he's talented enough to be a success in any of the 3 midfield positions. Having good players shouldn't stop you from buying a truly special player. Bayern broke the Bundesliga record on Martinez despite having a very good midfielder in Luis Gustavo, do you think they regret it? hell no. Arteta is getting old, we'll have to replace him sooner or later. A CM option of Gundogan, Wilshere, Ramsey, Flamini is way better than the one we currently have. And the good thing is, Gundogan is a versatile footballer.

Armor wrote:

However Reus could be an option for that striker role. Gervinho played there and it acually would have worked quite well if Gervinho could shoot and had brains. Our general play was good and we even seemed more fluid and dangerous at times but obviously the problem was that Gervinho just wasn't very good. I could see Reus doing a similar job and being a real success there. And the beauty of it is we could bring Giroud in for certain games and move Reus to any of the 3 spots behind the striker.

Agreed. A versatile forward is the way to go. An out and out striker means Giroud will hardly get games, and winning titles is a squad game. You'd like your back up striker to be sharp and motivated. The only way Giroud could get enough playing time is by regularly taking off your main striker around the 70-75 minute mark, would you really take off your star striker if you are leading by 1 goal? Of course not. A forward like Suarez for example could easily move to one of the four forward positions to make way for the back up striker.

You can never have enough top class players. If the opportunity is there you take it.

Tactics, you really are over rating Gundogan. He is a good player but not 'special'. Özil is special - Gundogan is not. He is slightly better than Ramsey and Wilshere, that's it. I back both our boys to surpass him within 2 years, but not if we are signing someone ahead of them. He IS also physically weak. No two ways about it.

I don't 'mind' Reus at all. We are stuck with Giroud for the season though, despite that signing a top class striker should have been THE priority for this transfer window. We need one of those ahead of a player like Reus. I just don't see us buying Reus AND a top class striker in the same window, but I would love to be proven wrong of course.

I wouldn't swap Ramsey for Gündogan.

Not saying I would at the moment, but the truth is Gundogan is the better player currently and no top team would reject the chance of signing him.

I don't think he is. I certainly wouldn't object to signing him though.

Rex wrote:

Tactics, you really are over rating Gundogan. He is a good player but not 'special'. Özil is special - Gundogan is not. He is slightly better than Ramsey and Wilshere, that's it. I back both our boys to surpass him within 2 years, but not if we are signing someone ahead of them. He IS also physically weak. No two ways about it

Can you name a better CM in Europe under the age of 25?

He's got some set of qualities which only a select few posses, such as his ability to play quality passes that turn over midfield with BOTH feet, ability to dribble in tight spaces, vision of the game etc Do you really believe he's only 'good'?

Gundogan's ceiling is way higher than Ramsey's IMO. Ramsey is developing into a very good player, but I can't see him developing into a world's top 10 player. Gundogan and Wilshere can both reach the highest level as far CM go, I'm talking Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo level here. However this is actually irrelevant because they can all play together; a midfield of Ramsey-Gundogan-Wilshere looks very tasty to me.

You keep on saying he's weak but you have nothing to back it up, did you see him against City for example? He pissed all over them. His physique is very similar to Arteta's - not imposing, but very good upper body strengths. Settle this discussion once and for all, and provide example of instances where he was out-muscled off the ball.

Tactics, I don't have to prove anything. Perfectly content with you having your opinion and I having mine. I just call it as I see it, and I have seen plenty of Gundogan.

Klaus wrote:

I wouldn't swap Ramsey for Gündogan.

Me neither, and then there is Wilshere.

otfgoon wrote:

They're very similar in style and in terms of the numbers they produce. But Reus' all around game is far superior.

Reus' touch looks a bit dodgy to me. Obviously better than Theo's but he doesn't have the insane ball control some of the others in his German generation do.

Edit - Not saying I wouldn't sign him for the record!

To be fair I think Theo's first touch is actually pretty good, bizarrely it's the touches that follow that are usually a little flawed.

Reus is better than Theo but i would upgrade half the team before that.

The times that I've seen Dortmund on the back foot Gundogan has looked pretty flimsy. Not necessarily physically, but just like he has no real way of imposing himself on the opposition- CL final after the first 30 mins for example. He's still young and learning in that respect. He's a ball player, and he's fantastic when he's seeing lots of the ball. Without it I think a player like Ramsey is much better and has a far higher 'ceiling'.

agree with that assessment tim. ramsey is a better all around prospect than gundogan.

it's dat welsh engine

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:

Jed wrote:

Honestly think that. Walcott's first touch is very good now and his pace is truly immense. Perfect guy to latch on to through balls.

Reus is clearly very good but he goes missing a lot from the games I've seen him in

Reus is world class. Is Theo world class?

World class? But is Reus Arsenal quality?

Jed wrote:

Reus is world class. Is Theo world class?

I agree.

Only because you say so.

I think this is about the time when we sit down and discuss what qualfies whether or not a player is world class.

Of course. It's now the only option.

I, for one, favour the philosophically satisfying definition: a player is a world class if he would feature as a starter in scratch match between the world's XXII best players.

Which I believe clearly proves that Reus is ... ah, shit.

The real question about any player is whether they are PL/CL winning class and Reus definitely fits the bill. I'd say we have about 8 or 9 players who are of that quality. Maybe even more.

Gundogan would have no place in the arsenal squad with ramsey and jack fighting it out with diaby if he is ever fit for 1 spot going box to box.

Ramsey has stepped up, Jack has huge potential and is great on the ball and Diaby can be a real asset if fit. I see no place for Ilkay to play here, he can't play the arteta role as he is far better next to someone deeper allowing him to press players and take to ball forward, we have those guys already.

We need someone who can distribute and impose physically while reading the game from deep and organising those around him, that's our next Midfield purchase.

Reus in a heartbeat next summer. He can play everywhere across the front 4 and actually puts a shift in off the ball no matter where he is playing, I'd take him on our RW over theo any day and Walcott's contract is one 2 years next may so who knows.