Official Injury Thread 2013/14: Page 68 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Official Injury Thread 2013/14

Klaus

The simplest explanation is most likely the correct one: over the last 9 years we've been the smallest of the 'big' clubs. We've had the smallest squad and the smallest amount of vital core players out of anyone who has taken part in 4 competitions each season. City, United and Chelsea have plenty of injuries too, it's just that they have better cover. Which in return means that they can afford to rest players a bit more often to prevent breakdowns whereas we're sometimes forced to gamble on players who are in the red.

It's probably not the theory of everything, but let's start with acknowledging that there's a difference between our squad and the others'.

y va marquer

Yep, as evidenced by the fact that Ramsey played 90+ minutes on Saturday and despite "muscle tightness" may play again tonight.
🙁
He'd better not get injured.

Burnwinter

otfgoon wrote:
Besides, we're not talking about a gradual change, quite literally went from hardly any injuries pre-2004 to having 5+ at any one time post 2004.

And what was the key thing that happened around the same time? The quality of our first team dropped off a cliff. We had to work longer and harder for every win on the day.

This is why guys like Ramsey and Wilshere get injured, because we're regularly still looking for the win or desperately protecting it after 80 minutes.

The other major change would be the move to the Emirates I guess—not sure how that could be at fault though.

Edit: yeah, what Klaus and Y said more or less.

Rex

I think you are right, Klaus, as to why we are constantly plagued by muscle injuries; Wenger gambles on players' fitness too damn much. However, we don't seem very good at treatment either when our players inevitably break down. Rehab is very often long, and setbacks are common. That to me is a bit surprising; if there is one thing our medical staff SHOULD have plenty of experience in treating, it is muscle injuries.

Klaus

I think people have a naive view of treatment of injuries personally. There are numerous ways that rehabilitation can be interrupted and it often gets complicated for reasons beyond the physio team's control. How long has Agüero been out this season with the same, in theory, simple injury? It's costing City another league title by the looks of it.

Rex

Man City are doing with Aguero what Wenger has done with several of our players; he has been rushed back and played too hard. Nothing mysterious or naive about that at all. You watch Wenger gamble the same way tonight with Ramsey and AOC. The warning signs are there, and Wenger will ignore them. I never said that has anything to do with our physios. However, when players DO break down, our medical team often seem too quick in pronouncing them fit again. If that is down to pressure from the manager or not I have no idea, but our players certainly seem to get more than their fair of set backs too.

Qwiss

Klaus wrote:
I think people have a naive view of treatment of injuries personally. There are numerous ways that rehabilitation can be interrupted and it often gets complicated for reasons beyond the physio team's control. How long has Agüero been out this season with the same, in theory, simple injury? It's costing City another league title by the looks of it.

But Man City have absolutely rushed him back time and time again. Its no mystery why he hasn't recovered.

Ray

Possibly Wenger is too cautious with his players, when they have certain injuries which they may be able to play with but Wenger won't take the risk, thus ruling them out, until they are completely fit, which makes our injury list seem long.

Though in some cases he rushes them back.

Irishgunner

Klaus wrote:
The simplest explanation is most likely the correct one: over the last 9 years we've been the smallest of the 'big' clubs. We've had the smallest squad and the smallest amount of vital core players out of anyone who has taken part in 4 competitions each season. City, United and Chelsea have plenty of injuries too, it's just that they have better cover. Which in return means that they can afford to rest players a bit more often to prevent breakdowns whereas we're sometimes forced to gamble on players who are in the red.

It's probably not the theory of everything, but let's start with acknowledging that there's a difference between our squad and the others'.

Agreed. Small squad, lack of rotation. We also have smaller players who are less robust, that probably contributes to it. This is compounded by teams feeling the need to roughen us up, and refs allowing it to happen.

Burnwinter™ wrote:
The other major change would be the move to the Emirates I guess—not sure how that could be at fault though.

The pitch is bigger than Highbury, that could have something to do with it. Little extra distances could add up I guess, with 30ish home games per season.

Rex

He always takes risks with muscle injuries to important players. The cruelest instance I can remember is when Diaby, of all people, had practiced less than a week with the squad, was taken into the match day squad, we got an early injury, Wenger sent the poor guy on, Diaby inevitably broke down again and was out for another couple of months.

Ray

Also we had a physical team all pacey, strong as well as technical players before 04, before we changed to having players with technical ability over their physical attributes. And the technical players are more susceptible to injuries.

Rex

Ox has apparently been carrying a slight groin problem for a few weeks and he played 120 minutes 3 days ago. Ramsey has been out since December 26, got 25 minutes a week ago and played 95? minutes 3 days ago. Kos has been out with a calf injury for a couple of weeks and has just come back in full training. Gibbs has been out for a while with a muscle injury too, and played quite a lot 3 days ago.

Now, if you start any of these 4 players tonight, how can you then say 'bad luck' if one, or more, of them break down?

Ray

That's a rare case though. we haven't been in the past few years been playing in Semi finals and extra time. Generally he is extremely cautious with injured players. Except for when one is constantly carrying injuries or if its a massive game and we need that said big player.

Klaus

Rex wrote:
Ox has apparently been carrying a slight groin problem for a few weeks and he played 120 minutes 3 days ago. Ramsey has been out since December 26, got 25 minutes a week ago and played 95? minutes 3 days ago. Kos has been out with a calf injury for a couple of weeks and has just come back in full training. Gibbs has been out for a while with a muscle injury too, and played quite a lot 3 days ago.

Now, if you start any of these 4 players tonight, how can you then say 'bad luck' if one, or more, of them break down?

The problem is that we might not have much of a choice. And this is the sort of situation we find ourselves in way more often than the oil clubs.

Rex

We can still put a strong team tonight with all those on the bench, and I think we should.

Qwiss

Rayman wrote:
That's a rare case though. we haven't been in the past few years been playing in Semi finals and extra time. Generally he is extremely cautious with injured players. Except for when one is constantly carrying injuries or if its a massive game and we need that said big player.

He really isn't. Even by his own admission he pushes important players until they break.

Rex

...and then he rushes them back so they can break down again. 🙂

Kel Varnsen

We've had 94 injuries this season. Liverpool, Chelsea and Everton are around 30-40. City at ca. 50.

Wtf is Wenger doing?

Rex

qs! wrote:
Rayman wrote:
That's a rare case though. we haven't been in the past few years been playing in Semi finals and extra time. Generally he is extremely cautious with injured players. Except for when one is constantly carrying injuries or if its a massive game and we need that said big player.

He really isn't. Even by his own admission he pushes important players until they break.

Rex wrote:
...and then he rushes them back so they can break down again. 🙂

MistaT

There's far more to it than the size of the squad and average games played. Look at Gibbs, lad's a permacrock and he hardly ever plays.

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