Youth team development: Page 63 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Youth team development

Rex

Best first touch in a team with Özil and Cazorla? Try again.

jones

Just a friendly word of advice lad, you won't enjoy this board for very long if you keep that attitude up.

Art

I don't have a problem with Klaus really. Not sure about the attitude, I guess saying the post you read was rubbish was unnecessary dismissive? It was meant to emphasize how much I rate Gnabry, rather than offend Klaus.

Rex, I think his first touch at times approached RvP level. Well at least it did, no idea how he is nowadays. Though it's not that impressive doing it in youth level compared to doing it in the real game in the first place. But with a little development and more consistency he would have gotten there I think.

Daz

Yeah Rex. Change your attitude mate.

Mirth

Art wrote:
Rex, I think his first touch at times approached RvP level. Well at least it did, no idea how he is nowadays.

Maybe so, but it's still mind boggling to say that Gnabry's touch is easily the best in the team when this team includes Mesut Ozil. Who, as far as I'm concerned, could give van Persie a run for his money himself.

That said, I think Klaus is being unusually harsh. Gnabry's the third youngest player to ever play for Arsenal and chalked up 14 appearances and was decent enough in most of them. That in itself requires a combination of talent and mentality for a player that young. But yeah, I don't think I ever saw him as a massive talent either - closer to Fran Merida than Fabregas.

Art

Mirth wrote:
Art wrote:
Rex, I think his first touch at times approached RvP level. Well at least it did, no idea how he is nowadays.

Maybe so, but it's still mind boggling to say that Gnabry's touch is easily the best in the team when this team includes Mesut Ozil. Who, as far as I'm concerned, could give van Persie a run for his money himself.

I never said Gnabry had the best first touch to be fair, I said I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up having it due to what I've seen him doing in the youth league. I said he was easily one our most technically gifted players, which he is because the list isn't that long. Once you go past Cazorla, Ozil, Wilshere and Sanchez, the gap to the next best guy becomes quite big.

Anyway think you are underrating RvP a bit. Don't know if I can agree about Ozil or Cazorla having better first touch, specially not if you factor in his first touch finishing ability. As far as attackers go anyway, I don't think the league has had anyone as good as him in ages.

Mirth

Art wrote:
Mirth wrote:
Maybe so, but it's still mind boggling to say that Gnabry's touch is easily the best in the team when this team includes Mesut Ozil. Who, as far as I'm concerned, could give van Persie a run for his money himself.

I never said Gnabry had the best first touch to be fair, I said I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up having it due to what I've seen doing in the youth league.

That's not how it reads.

Anyway think you are underrating RvP a bit. Don't know if I can agree about Ozil or Cazorla having better first touch, specially not if you factor in his first touch finishing ability. As far as attackers go anyway, I don't think the league has had anyone as good as him in ages.

Don't think I'm underrating van Persie, I think his touch is nearly as good as Bergkamp's. The thing is, Ozil's touch is around that level as well - granted he doesn't finish on the volley like van Persie (more to do with him being shot shy) but some of the flicks he pulls of are outrageous.

Klaus

Art wrote:
Wouldn't be surprised if he has the best first touch in the team.

I don't think he's anywhere near guys like Özil, Wilshere or Cazorla. Claiming he's got the best touch at Arsenal is essentially saying he's got the best touch in Premier League and probably sits proudly in the top 5 in the world. Now why on earth did we loan this fantastic prodigy to West Bromwich for a whole season when we have 2.5 wingers in the squad on a good day?

The more reasonable view is that Gnabry is not anywhere near the elite bracket of talents. I don't know how he compares to Crowley - whom I've watched a whooping ten minutes of - but I know he's a long cry from the sort of guy who turns into a starter for Arsenal. He was on course to maybe turn into a solid Premier League player who, with a lot of luck, could have been a mainstay in our squad for a few years. He's not - and was not - on a comparable level to the better German talents who have come through in recent years. He's not the sort of youth player anyone would spend stupenduous money on.

When I say that he has no outstanding qualities I don't mean that he's a bad player. But he literally has no edge that would merit us putting a huge stake into his development over the next couple of years instead of spending money on some of the top-end talents around Europe. Wilshere does. Chamberlain does. Guys like Martial do. Guys like Gnabry? They're common goods in that context.

Development curves aren't straight lines and late bloomers do exist, but those are mainly players who for one reason or other struggle early on. Guys who have played at the big academies from an early age and consistently showed improvement aren't going to suddenly crank it up three levels with more first team games under their belt. They're going to turn into midtable players.

Art wrote:
I don't have a problem with Klaus really. Not sure about the attitude, I guess saying the post you read was rubbish was unnecessary dismissive? It was meant to emphasize how much I rate Gnabry, rather than offend Klaus.

No worries mate, I'm not offended.

Timbob

I thought Gnabry looked a really interesting prospect personally. Seemed very sound technically and athletically, but more than anything he was very smart, selfless and disciplined. You don't get many kids who've just turned 18 like that.

I do suspect that missing so much football, coupled with this pretty awful loan spell, might ultimately see the end of him at Arsenal though. He's got the rest of this season to turn it around.

mdgoonah41

injuries have slowed him down, but hes still plenty young enough to make it here in some role

Burnwinter

Agree with Tim. A couple of years ago when he was actually making appearances, among our technically gifted youngsters Gnabry stood out as having strength and tactical maturity. But he never really did much.

yuv

Those who didn't follow the youth may not have rated him, but I remember he was head and shoulders above everyone else - he was easily the best of the bunch (which included Ektaur, mind - though he surely left him far behind now). His first touch wasn't the outstanding thing there, but he read the game well, had a very good pass, good timing, good finish, very good shot, he was strong, could take his man, had the balls to go with it too. Haven't seen him for almost 2 years now - have no idea what actually happened to him, and would he make the crucial step to real football. But in terms of talent - there was no question there.

Gunner89

Ozil's first touch is the best recently including Van Persie's.

Van Persie had an outstanding positional sense coupled with a great touch.

As regards Gnabry I agree with Klaus's assessment.

Doc

Always liked Gnabry. Think he has bags of potential & was really efficient in his game.. Injuries and this loan look like they might set him back a bit but it's still early day. He is one of the few youngsters we have that could make it here.

Its becoming a lot hard for youngsters to come in to Arsenal and the prem and have an instant impact... Think when players come in to the first team in the beginning they either try to do too much like Ox and Theo before him or focus on trying not too mess up like Gnabry did (same goes for Campbell). I prefer the latter, but it will take more time to see what he is about.. shame this loan spell looks like its not going to work out as he will probably need to go on another one next season.

Timbob

Does anyone know what injury(s) he had?

Clrnc

Klaus, didn't you rate Gnabry in the past? Somehow I remember you saying he will have a future here after the Swansea game.

Anyway, I think Gnabry is a good talent. He might not be top bracket like Fabregas, Bellerin but he can be a good squad player. It depends on how he bounce back from these setbacks, because his injury problems wasn't ordinary and he haven't played football for more than a year now.

lorddulaarsenal

Chalk me down as a Gnabry fan. He knows how to hurt the opposition.

Loew is a big fan too which says a lot

Ricky1985

Tim-bob wrote:
Does anyone know what injury(s) he had?

It was two different knee injuries that kept him out for around a year. I can't remember it being said anywhere exactly what the more serious of the two knee injuries was but it wasn't his cruciate ligament on either occasion.

The thing with Gnabry is that he has been picking up injuries since the day he walked through the door at 16 years old. He's very injury prone - mostly small injuries that keep him out for 3 weeks here or a month there He's a great talent though - very solid all round game, efficient in the final third, all round super technique and good pace and strength. Always lacked the energy, focus and stamina to play for 90 minutes, even at the much less demanding levels in the various Arsenal youth teams and that meant he would go completely anonymous for long stretches. But he also had the capability of a moment of genius, where he'd kill a 60 yard pass stone dead or a very clever attempt on goal that an ordinary player wouldn't even fathom, and he always had a rocket of a right foot, can bang it in from anywhere.

Hopefully Pulis gets him back on track, the season's long and there's still plenty of time for him to turn it around.

lorddulaarsenal

Yeah he's a stocky boy too, so injuries mean he becomes too heavy

Bold Tone

It's interesting how we all see the same thing and come up with different conclusions.
Harsh i admit and i keep waiting for him to prove me wrong but he has never impressed me.
First team, reserves, youth team, Germany, Diaby ward, weight, arsenal.com, loan, etc, etc.
Not one game.

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