Youth team development: Page 61 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Youth team development

Ricky1985

otfgoon wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
If Gnabry's not currently good enough to get in West Brom's team, why would we play him here? May as well just go with Campbell in that case, at least he has more experience.

He is good enough to start for them, or at least get game time for them. Pulis is a dinosaur though so he doesn't get a look in, I'd be willing to bet a 17yr old Fabregas would have hardly featured either under him.

He did pretty well here a couple of years ago as an 18 yr old so he'd definitely be a useful option off the bench in the short term. Can then loan him out again in January to a team that will actually play him regularly.

Don't really agree with that. Pulis is a good manager and if Gnabry was good enough to contribute, I think he'd pick him.

Gnabry spent 14 months out injured and it's going to be a long road back for him, losing that time has probably already cost him the chance of making it at Arsenal and I reckon starting in the Premier League is still a year or so of playing regularly somewhere away from him.

Ricky1985

Ray wrote:
mohan wrote:
Dula gushing over him made me think he is the next best thing 🙁

He is, the Barnsley manager didn't like him because he had some attitude problems, and supposedly wasn't playing for the team.

All just a matter of opinion, and Crowley has done well for England youth sides, but my opinion is that there's a good little player in there that'll make it in the Premier League, but I dont think he has enough about him to make it at a club like Arsenal.

I don't hold out much hope of any of our youngsters on loan players becoming good players for Arsenal. Zelalem has a chance if he really develops in the next two years, Maitland-Niles a slight chance if he can become a well rounded central midfielder - doesn't have enough to make it out wide here for certain, and Akpom has still the slightest flicker he can make it here, but very, very unlikely at this point. Again, all just my opinion.

The rest; Martinez, Hayden, Toral, Crowley, Wellington, even Gnabry - I don't think will.

HomeSteak

Dan Crowley returns to Arsenal after loan spell at League One outfit Barnsley is cut short

Not good enough for League one ? Or did we want him back ?

goon

Ricky1985 wrote:
Don't really agree with that. Pulis is a good manager and if Gnabry was good enough to contribute, I think he'd pick him.

Gnabry spent 14 months out injured and it's going to be a long road back for him, losing that time has probably already cost him the chance of making it at Arsenal and I reckon starting in the Premier League is still a year or so of playing regularly somewhere away from him.

He's good at what he does maybe but it doesn't change the fact that he'll pick players who are hard, work hard and run around all day over players who'll add a bit of flair and creativity into to the mix, it's no coincidence that McManaman is also finding himself frozen out too. West Brom probably have one of the most uninspiring midfield's in the country and have the lowest goals tally in the league this year as a result.

Agree in general on your second point but the alternative is Iwobi at the moment. I don't know what the deal with loans are, we probably wouldn't be able to pick him now anyway, but if we could have him back as an option tomorrow I'd take him in a heart beat.

Meatwad

Ricky1985 wrote:
If Gnabry's not currently good enough to get in West Brom's team, why would we play him here? May as well just go with Campbell in that case, at least he has more experience.

and in germany they thought coquelin was hot garbage. judge players on how they perform for arsenal. he looked pretty good against swansea and tottenham for us a couple years ago. maybe he's not the same player now, but i wouldn't use the opinion of a pulis to make that determination.

Coombs

Just seems to have rubbed the Barnsley coach the wrong way for whatever reason. Looked like their best player for some distance when he was starting regularly.

speedy

Earlier in the season their coach said something along the lines of "it's not the Dan Crowley show". To many touches everytime.

goon

Reading around it sounds like he started well but has started to struggle and with them battling relegation they're looking for someone with more experience.

jones

Meatwad wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
If Gnabry's not currently good enough to get in West Brom's team, why would we play him here? May as well just go with Campbell in that case, at least he has more experience.

and in germany they thought coquelin was hot garbage. judge players on how they perform for arsenal. he looked pretty good against swansea and tottenham for us a couple years ago. maybe he's not the same player now, but i wouldn't use the opinion of a pulis to make that determination.

Coquelin was very poor at Freiburg, you'd have to add however their retarded manager used him alternatively as a left or right winger.

Klaus

otfgoon wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
If Gnabry's not currently good enough to get in West Brom's team, why would we play him here? May as well just go with Campbell in that case, at least he has more experience.

He is good enough to start for them, or at least get game time for them.

I don't think he is. Gnabry is one of the weirdest Arsenal hypes in a long time. He did reasonably well for us when he was asked to fill in, but the bloke has no outstanding qualities. He's the typical player who gets game time at Arsenal because we can afford it, but at a club where they're fighting tooth and nail for every point he's not going to be on the pitch unless he contributes.

I'm puzzled over why we loaned Gnabry to a Premier League club to begin with. The club should have realised that it's above his current level.

Ricky1985

That's a fair point, Meatwad. Coquelin still thought he was a two way midfielder back then though. He's a better player now that he has accepted his limitations.

otfgoon wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
Don't really agree with that. Pulis is a good manager and if Gnabry was good enough to contribute, I think he'd pick him.

Gnabry spent 14 months out injured and it's going to be a long road back for him, losing that time has probably already cost him the chance of making it at Arsenal and I reckon starting in the Premier League is still a year or so of playing regularly somewhere away from him.

He's good at what he does maybe but it doesn't change the fact that he'll pick players who are hard, work hard and run around all day over players who'll add a bit of flair and creativity into to the mix, it's no coincidence that McManaman is also finding himself frozen out too. West Brom probably have one of the most uninspiring midfield's in the country and have the lowest goals tally in the league this year as a result.

Agree in general on your second point but the alternative is Iwobi at the moment. I don't know what the deal with loans are, we probably wouldn't be able to pick him now anyway, but if we could have him back as an option tomorrow I'd take him in a heart beat.

Gnabry was, and I guess still is, a hard worker - presses, tackles, protects his fullback. Always had a bit of a problem with his stamina and maintaining intensity and focus over a whole match, but nothing was ever wrong with his application at any level I ever saw him at. I'd say Pulis would like him a lot if he really got going, but he's obviously got to get his match fitness back and do so whilst trying to get to grips with Premier League football.

Him and Iwobi would be much of a muchness for me at this point, and I really think Gnabry would be better served working hard in training and figuring out what he has to do in order to improve his game to get in the West Brom team.

Shady

Klaus wrote:
otfgoon wrote:
He is good enough to start for them, or at least get game time for them.

I don't think he is. Gnabry is one of the weirdest Arsenal hypes in a long time. He did reasonably well for us when he was asked to fill in, but the bloke has no outstanding qualities. He's the typical player who gets game time at Arsenal because we can afford it, but at a club where they're fighting tooth and nail for every point he's not going to be on the pitch unless he contributes.

I'm puzzled over why we loaned Gnabry to a Premier League club to begin with. The club should have realised that it's above his current level.

Weren't you hyping him up massively a couple of years ago?

(Might be mistaking you for someone else)

Ricky1985

Klaus wrote:
otfgoon wrote:
He is good enough to start for them, or at least get game time for them.

I don't think he is. Gnabry is one of the weirdest Arsenal hypes in a long time. He did reasonably well for us when he was asked to fill in, but the bloke has no outstanding qualities. He's the typical player who gets game time at Arsenal because we can afford it, but at a club where they're fighting tooth and nail for every point he's not going to be on the pitch unless he contributes.

I'm puzzled over why we loaned Gnabry to a Premier League club to begin with. The club should have realised that it's above his current level.

He can hit a ball like a rocket with very little back lift and his first touch in the box is usually very consistent - got decent goalscoring potential, even at the highest level in my opinion. The rest of his game is solid, no weak parts. He's quick, strong, can spot and play a creative pass as well as pass and move in the middle third and he'll work hard for the team.

Definitely could have been, and might still be, a good player for us. He has had so many injuries in the last few years though that I'd put my money on him having to start lower down to work his way up.

goon

Point taken Ricky, but I just don't trust Pulis.

Klaus wrote:
otfgoon wrote:
He is good enough to start for them, or at least get game time for them.

I don't think he is. Gnabry is one of the weirdest Arsenal hypes in a long time. He did reasonably well for us when he was asked to fill in, but the bloke has no outstanding qualities. He's the typical player who gets game time at Arsenal because we can afford it, but at a club where they're fighting tooth and nail for every point he's not going to be on the pitch unless he contributes.

I'm puzzled over why we loaned Gnabry to a Premier League club to begin with. The club should have realised that it's above his current level.

Think you're being harsh there, the lad showed loads of promise at youth level and unlike many others, was actually able to transfer some of that to the first team. They also seem to rate him highly in the German set up, he a regular with the U21's and Lowe has mentioned him a couple of times too. More to the point though, have you see who West Brom have been playing? They might not have to fight tooth and nail for every point if they had players who were actually good going forward.

mdgoonah41

start him against swansea

Timbob

Barnsley fans don't seem too disappointed tbh. Seems to be an acceptance that he's very talented but miles away from being a proper player.

Klaus

Shady wrote:
Weren't you hyping him up massively a couple of years ago?

(Might be mistaking you for someone else)

Hmm, don't think so. Confusing me with Ricky perhaps? He keeps tabs on the reserves.

I never watched Gnabry until he started playing for the first team. I thought he did well in his cameos back in 13/14; what impressed me most was how well he stood up physically against established Premier League players. Some clever defensive game too to cover for his lack of adventurousness going forward. It's possible that he'll turn into a good Premier League player in the end, similar to Sebastian Larsson maybe. But he's clearly not a Wilshere/Ramsey/Bellerin level talent, or even nearly as good as Chamberlain was at the same age, and that makes me think he's a waste of time. He's had a few difficult injuries at a young age too on top of that.

Klaus

otfgoon wrote:
More to the point though, have you see who West Brom have been playing? They might not have to fight tooth and nail for every point if they had players who were actually good going forward.

Whenever I've seen West Bromwich they've played with Berahino and Rondon as the forwards, Brunt as the playmaker and then a bunch of hard-working players to knit the field together. They don't score a lot but they also don't concede a lot... which is a sound strategy given their lack of talent. Sessegnon is back now though which should improve them in the long run.

I think part of the problem is that West Brom expected a lot more ability from Gnabry than he actually contributes with. You're looking at this from an Arsenal fan's perspective, but try Pulis's point of view intead. He didn't agree to take Gnabry on board for a season out of kindness.

USArsenal

too selfish apparently.. quality was easy to see, but tried to run everything himself

marv3llous

Guessing its something behind the scenes, rather than actual lack of quality. There have been a few rumors before, that he has bit of an ego.

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