Youth team development: Page 6 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Youth team development

Rohit

Overhyped may be, certainly one of the best though.

Right now the media is having a field day with us and we probably deserve it.

Wilshere and Gibbs from the same batch for Arsenal is certainly not bad produce by any means.

Rohit

It's not just one or two ordinary players though. Both Wilshere and Gibbs could go on to be the best in their position in their country. This is really also just the first batch since the academy and the methods were overhauled after Wenger's arrival.

What is certainly questionable now is our scouting of youngsters that are brought in from outside England. The hit rate for them should be higher than for players that grow up with Arsenal because of various limitations placed on the clubs in England.

goon

You've never heard anyone go about Barcelona's youth system? 😆

Ramsey, Chamberlain, Walcott, Szczesny, Wilshere and Gibbs are all internationals playing at the highest level in the CL, that's a pretty decent return, certainly enough to continue to attract top quality youngsters.

asajoseph

Is our youth setup really one of the best?

In Wenger's tenure, we've brought through how many players to the first team?

Cole
Bendtner
Gibbs
Szczney
Wilshere

I must be forgetting one or two, but really, that's not such an impressive list for a club that decided that to focus on youth 9 years ago.

Rohit

How can Arsenal limit how far a player can go? Arsenal can only take you as far as your talent can take you. Jack Wilshere is technically one of the most accomplished players to come out of England for a long time. We are doing a lot right, not everything about Arsenal is wrong.

Barcelona has only now started churning this home grown talent and it's just one generation. Also, they can train kids for as many hours as they want and can pick up kids from anywhere. They don't have limitations placed on them like we do.

goon

No one talks about our youth system except the media, and even that was a few years ago when they were smashing opposition in the CC.

Rohit

asajoseph wrote:
Is our youth setup really one of the best?

In Wenger's tenure, we've brought through how many players to the first team?

Cole
Bendtner
Gibbs
Szczney
Wilshere

I must be forgetting one or two, but really, that's not such an impressive list for a club that decided that to focus on youth 9 years ago.

I did mention that our scouting of youngsters abroad must improve. The hit rate there has to be higher probably but Wilshere and Gibbs, two England internationals in the first batch really since Wenger came and changed methods and set-up isn't that bad. I also think it will get better.

If you count players that came in from outside aged 16-20 then really Cesc, Van Persie, Song, Toure all did pretty well for themselves.

Rohit

Cool.

asajoseph

Rohit wrote:
asajoseph wrote:
Is our youth setup really one of the best?

In Wenger's tenure, we've brought through how many players to the first team?

Cole
Bendtner
Gibbs
Szczney
Wilshere

I must be forgetting one or two, but really, that's not such an impressive list for a club that decided that to focus on youth 9 years ago.

I did mention that our scouting of youngsters abroad must improve. The hit rate there has to be higher probably but Wilshere and Gibbs, two England internationals in the first batch really since Wenger came and changed methods and set-up isn't that bad. I also think it will get better.

Gibbs is 23, and started playing for Arsenal 5 years ago (on & off). He's not even really that good. Wilshere broke through 3 years. Since then, there's been nothing. No player that's come through the youth has even put their hands up in the meantime as a candidate for a first team spot. Things could improve going forward, maybe we'll get something from Gnabry & Zelalem, maybe eventually Bellerin too, but beyond that, it's hard to see much coming through.

Hard to see much special about our academy, really, and what makes it 'bad' is the supposed focus it's had for most of the last decade.

Mirth

I also think we don't bring in the best young players anymore. Now admittedly, the likes of Hazard, Oscar, Smalling, Phil Jones are not youth academy products for United or Chelsea but those are the players we should try to get on board. Instead we focus on the next level of young talent like Jenkinson and Sanogo.

speedy

We did try to sign at least 3 of them.

Mirth

I know, I meant we should do more to sign them . hazard may have been a tall order but with Phil Jones and Smalling it was because we were not decisive.

speedy

We went straigh in with 10m for smalling united came in aswell and he went to the bigger club. Jones we tried to sign the year before and and he was happy to stay then when he was ready to move again he picked the bigger club. Nothing we could do really players will pick the bigger clubs most of the time.
Vertonghen and lloris should be in arsenal shirts though.

asajoseph

I'm talking about players who've come through & spent at least a few years being developed in the youth system of the club.

Not players like Cesc, Ox or Theo, who all ended up in the first team within a year or so.

Mirth

How does our record compare with United, Chelsea and Liverpool?

Timbob

We have one of the very best academies in the country in terms of players produced, but all English clubs pale in comparison to certain clubs on the continent. A lot of that is to do with the systemic disadvantages that there are for English clubs though.

Rohit

Timothy wrote:
A lot of that is to do with the systemic disadvantages that there are for English clubs though.

I agree and said this too. It's extremely unfair to compare us to other European clubs. Also, I don't think Arsenal themselves have ever hyped the youth system albeit have spoken of emphasis on young players a lot.

Timbob

I think fans have at times overly hyped certain inindividual youth players. Most of us have been guilty of that, but all clubs supporters are the same. Nuffin unusual about Arsenal in that regard.

Claudius

Timothy, the difference is that there was a clear focus on Wenger's part on youth post 2005. In the 8 years since, the only Arsenal product of note that broke through into the first team was Jack Wilshere, and even he has not yet had the opportunity to back up the hype. The other first team players are not amazing. There would be limited interest from our rivals in Gibbs, Sczeszny, for example.

It is true that the other teams are not doing much better. Amongst the top 3, only Cleverly is worth discussing I think. However, at no point did those 3 clubs clearly sacrifice the present to invest in youth who could win them trophies in the future. Whenever I think successful youth projects, I think current day Barca or 90s Ajax. Look at the homegrown talent in those teams and tell me that our guys come anywhere close.

Rohit

We invested in youth and brought through Cesc, RVP, Song, Clichy since 2005 and Toure was only installed at a first teamer in defence in 2003.

Cesc was the only player who was quite rounded while the rest had so much to learn. RVP was a great talent but we really developed him into the rounded number 9 he is today. Song and Clichy had glaring faults. Walcott's technical development has been very good too.

The project failed because we didn't supplement team with experience to add to the youth. Easy to look at Traore's and Djourou's but we have done well in my opinion.

Anyways, I don't think we were really talking of such players but more the academy.

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