Kroenke/Gazidis/Wenger out!: Page 206 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Kroenke/Gazidis/Wenger out!

Biggus

kamikaze wrote:
it's like wenger and gazidis just checked our account balance last month for the first time since 2005 and holy shit, there's like 100m in there.

😆

kamikaze wrote:
i've given up trying to understand management. they've thrown away 8 yrs for no good reason, and it wouldnt surprise me in the least if they found some reason to screw it up again this summer, or end up spending silly money for one of the least likable players there is.

it's almost like they're trying to get rid of me as a supporter.

😆 It's great isn't it? Wenger is actually insane- The rest of his time here should be comedy gold.

ebouefan

Wenger is going to be so confused if he finds out us peasants have turned our noses up on his 35 million bid.
Only league uh rejects for you ungrateful fuckers now.

Biggus

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/sports/2013-07/17/content_16786730.htm?

Looks like Klaus has lost the moral high ground in his criticism of Usmanov.

In the world of big business and EPL football certainly comes under that banner, no one is squeeky clean.

Burnwinter

Only if you insist on conflating all lesser evils into the greater.

After all, Kroenke represents Wal-Mart which is widely regarded as an exploitative and destructive economic force in US retail. It's just we're comparing him to a literal gangster.

Captain

Biggus, that makes no sense.

Usmanov IS a big shareholder at Arsenal.
Doan Nguyen Duc is a sponsor of a club tour (although I think that claim is actually dubious, but it doesn't matter)

In what way would that affect Klaus' opinion or ethical reasoning?

Captain

That's a strange news report, by the way; everyone trying to piggy back off Arsenal for their five seconds in the limelight.

Biggus

Well as I say, no one is squeaky clean in this game.
If you don't like Usmanov because he's a fat bastard- Fair enough, but lets not pretend than anyone else is much better all vast hordes of wealth come from exploitation you can't get rich any other way.

Captain

You could just make a website where people host photos and sell it...

But seriously, I still don't get the point. Klaus doesn't want Usmanov to own Arsenal because of his perceived dubious actions; I'd assume he wouldn't want this guy to own Arsenal either given the choice and if global witnesses claims are correct (they aren't always, or rather, they are sometimes hyperbolic). Where's the disconnect?

Biggus

The disconnect is that there is no moral high ground, unless theres some serious human rights abuse questions- theres no difference between where Kroenke gets his money where Usmanov gets his money and where Abramovich gets his money.

Captain

I would think that some consider there to be a vast difference between paying your workers minimum wage and not paying your workers at all in order to 'steal' their proposed asset share. A few bodies in a gutter probably doesn't go down too well either.

As far as I remember, though correct me if I'm wrong, Klaus has never proposed that there is a saint amongst our ownership. He's just leaned heavily towards what he considers the lesser of two evils.

Biggus

The workers of the ex-Soviet oil & gas companies who were given "useless" shares in place of wages which weren't paid for months were paid for them.
I don't recall any obligation to give them a crash course in capitalism 101.

Captain

So basically, they were forced into a very weak position in order to take what was rightfully theirs, no..?

I don't particularly want to argue the ins and outs of Abramovich (or whoever), I'm simply saying that there is a clear and present difference in two modes of accumulating vast wealth.

And still this is way beyond my initial point; a bloke performed a land grab, another performed a land grab, okay. Both of them being 'evil' doesn't somehow mean that Klaus' opposition to such behaviour is invalid.

Burnwinter

It's a stretch of an argument, that relies on claiming that a vast spectrum of different nefarious behaviour is morally equivalent, and then claiming that someone's said that some of it's perfectly fine when they haven't.

That said, I find the fact that Wenger had met this guy well into the past quite interesting.

Captain

His company either run, own or built (maybe all three) the Arsenal soccer school in Vietnam. Presumably that is the root of the casual acquaintance.

Biggus

Captain wrote:
So basically, they were forced into a very weak position in order to take what was rightfully theirs, no..?

Welcome to capitalism 101.

Captain wrote:
I don't particularly want to argue the ins and outs of Abramovich (or whoever), I'm simply saying that there is a clear and present difference in two modes of accumulating vast wealth.

Not really, how is ripping some workers off/paying them shit better/worse than pushing peasants off their land? Abramovich/Usmanov/Kroenke they're all the same.

Captain wrote:
And still this is way beyond my initial point; a bloke performed a land grab, another performed a land grab, okay. Both of them being 'evil' doesn't somehow mean that Klaus' opposition to such behaviour is invalid.

I didn't mean his opposition was invalid, just misplaced- Everyone is guilty to greater or lesser degrees, the clubs who make massive profits, the players who earn ridiculous wages and us who lap it all up.

Burnwinter

Ah right thanks, hadn't picked that up. I was imagining some bizarre dodgy shyster investors versus football club mandarins speed-dating service.

Burnwinter

Biggus wrote:
Everyone is guilty to greater or lesser degrees, the clubs who make massive profits, the players who earn ridiculous wages and us who lap it all up.

Exactly. Guilt(Kroenke) < Guilt(Usmanov)

Captain

Biggus wrote:
Captain wrote:
So basically, they were forced into a very weak position in order to take what was rightfully theirs, no..?

Welcome to capitalism 101.

That's not capitalism...

Captain wrote:
I don't particularly want to argue the ins and outs of Abramovich (or whoever), I'm simply saying that there is a clear and present difference in two modes of accumulating vast wealth.

Not really, how is ripping some workers off/paying them shit better/worse than pushing peasants off their land? Abramovich/Usmanov/Kroenke they're all the same.

Kroenke doesn't actually own walmart, his wife is an heir. He's a real estate entrepreneur and sports magnate. It's plausible that he piggy backed on his wife's network to expand his wealth but, as far as anyone is aware, he doesn't underpay or rip off his workers. Feel free to show me evidence to contrary if you have some available.

Captain wrote:
And still this is way beyond my initial point; a bloke performed a land grab, another performed a land grab, okay. Both of them being 'evil' doesn't somehow mean that Klaus' opposition to such behaviour is invalid.

I didn't mean his opposition was invalid, just misplaced- Everyone is guilty to greater or lesser degrees, the clubs who make massive profits, the players who earn ridiculous wages and us who lap it all up.

Cool.

Biggus

Captain wrote:
That's not capitalism...

It is when you strip all the united colours of Benetton bollocks away.

Captain wrote:
Kroenke doesn't actually own walmart, his wife is an heir. He's a real estate entrepreneur and sports magnate. It's plausible that he piggy backed on his wife's network to expand his wealth but, as far as anyone is aware, he doesn't underpay or rip off his workers. Feel free to show me evidence to contrary if you have some available.

Yes yes yes I'm sure Mr & Mrs Kroenke have a very different ethical standpoint.....

Captain

United colors of benetton? What are you on about? 😆

No need to sidestep, if you know Kroenke to be an abusive employer, than share the wealth...

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