Kroenke/Gazidis/Wenger out!: Page 197 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Kroenke/Gazidis/Wenger out!

Claudius

Cannon wrote:
Enjoy our Arsenal while it lasts folks. AW is what is keeping this club together. Once he goes Stan and Usmanov are gonna be at it like cats and dogs, and we are gonna end up either like pool/villa or Chelsea.

That's a massive claim that needs substantiation.

Burnwinter

Doesn't make sense to me. Kroenke won that battle and has control for as long as he doesn't want to sell.

Cannon

Claudius wrote:
Cannon wrote:
Enjoy our Arsenal while it lasts folks. AW is what is keeping this club together. Once he goes Stan and Usmanov are gonna be at it like cats and dogs, and we are gonna end up either like pool/villa or Chelsea.

That's a massive claim that needs substantiation.

I think its a foreseeable future. Billionaires don't think like fans. They rarely 'cooperate' and they rather own than 'share'. If you think Usmanov enjoys owning 30 of the club yet having no say in its running you are mistaken. He is just toeing the line cause he knows how much the club hierarchy and fans are behind Wenger. And how deeply unpopular any hostile move to takeover club or discredit AW would prove to be. So he is being nice for now. Once AW goes as rumored there would hardly be any manager in the world who would care more about THE Arsenal, the youth development, the attacking philosophy, the sell before buy etc THAN getting titles and his payday. It will be upto Stan K to either sell to Usmanov or make clear his intention to own the club with his OWN money. Unless we really are rollling in the millions i don't see Stan doing that. TBH WHY WOULD HE!!??

Offcourse it may not all happen and Usmanov may continue to pay over the odds for each share and continue to get no love from the board and continue to be just a nobody. 🙂

Iloveyouarsenewenger

Usmanov has the shares already. Why would he "continue to pay" a penny for them?

Kroenke has all the control here. Even if Wenger goes, he can run the club in the exact same way - don't put a penny in and don't take a penny out. Let the CEO and the manager take care of rest of the details.

There is absolutely nothing Usmanov can do about anything here. In fact, it is actually hard for him to even sell the shares and get out because no-one else would invest so much of money in something that won't give them the control of the club and Kroenke would buy them only if he is selling at a very low price (or might not buy them at all).

Kroenke has more than 60% of shares. That gives him control of the boardroom and as long as he is happy running the club the way it is being run now (without any major changes like new stadium or huge investment somewhere etc) he doesn't need Usmanov's support.

Captain

Burnwinter wrote:
"his supposed approach"

You can't get away with saying Wenger doesn't have an approach when you praise it in ever other post, you know. Love him or hate him, he's nothing if not methodical.

What approach is it that I praise in every other post?

Biggus wrote:
Okay, so you deny Wenger has an aversion to spending money on transfers and you deny that his will should be tempered in any way.

So Wenger should have all the power yet none of the responsibility

You want to try that again?

Cannon

Iloveyouarsenewenger wrote:
Usmanov has the shares already. Why would he "continue to pay" a penny for them?

Kroenke has all the control here. Even if Wenger goes, he can run the club in the exact same way - don't put a penny in and don't take a penny out. Let the CEO and the manager take care of rest of the details.

There is absolutely nothing Usmanov can do about anything here. In fact, it is actually hard for him to even sell the shares and get out because no-one else would invest so much of money in something that won't give them the control of the club and Kroenke would buy them only if he is selling at a very low price (or might not buy them at all).

Kroenke has more than 60% of shares. That gives him control of the boardroom and as long as he is happy running the club the way it is being run now (without any major changes like new stadium or huge investment somewhere etc) he doesn't need Usmanov's support.

Thats not how it works. Stan will HAVE to make him an offer sooner or later. Its the rules. And that could work out to be a very expensive affair for Stan..

Captain

What rule is that?

Cannon

Captain wrote:
What rule is that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeover_Panel

Essentially with the growing value of Arsenal, Usmanov could command a hefty premium for his 29%

Captain

That doesn't answer anything. What rule says that Stan will have to make Usmanov an offer?

Burnwinter

Captain wrote:
What approach is it that I praise in every other post?

His overall method. I can list out about a dozen aspects of it, consistent from season to season, that I've seen you defend on numerous occasions if you really want.

Burnwinter

Captain wrote:
What rule is that?

Used to be that if R&W hit 30% they could have access to our books, but I believe that rule was changed. I don't think the 30% mandatory takeover bid rule exists / would've changed anything with Kroenke as majority shareholder.

There's this unsourced tidbit on Wiki that I've passed by a few times:

As of October 2011, Kroenke owns 41,574 shares (66.82%) and Red & White Securities own 18,261 shares (29.35%).[82] Under company law Kroenke, as majority shareholder, is obliged to make an offer for the remaining shares in the club.

Captain

Burnwinter wrote:
Captain wrote:
What approach is it that I praise in every other post?

His overall method. I can list out about a dozen aspects of it, consistent from season to season, that I've seen you defend on numerous occasions if you really want.

Feel free if it has relevance to the discussion in hand.

The 'approach' posited in Biggus' loaded question was that Wenger is a 'bean-counter' so we can start from there.

Captain

Burnwinter wrote:
Captain wrote:
What rule is that?

Used to be that if R&W hit 30% they could have access to our books, but I believe that rule was changed. I don't think the 30% mandatory takeover bid rule exists / would've changed anything with Kroenke as majority shareholder.

There's this unsourced tidbit on Wiki that I've passed by a few times:

As of October 2011, Kroenke owns 41,574 shares (66.82%) and Red & White Securities own 18,261 shares (29.35%).[82] Under company law Kroenke, as majority shareholder, is obliged to make an offer for the remaining shares in the club.

Can only assume that wiki entry is out of date. Kroenke would have been obliged once he passed 30% but that's long gone now.

Burnwinter

Captain wrote:
Feel free if it has relevance to the discussion in hand.

It doesn't, really. I'd prefer it if you'd just be a gentleman and agree that from transfer policy to wages policy, to tactical approach and match day specifics, to the weight placed on football requirements vs the overall financial position of the club, to his emphasis on a specific spectrum of player attributes, his emphasis on specific competitions, his approach to the fans and to public relations and incidents on and off the pitch, to squad disharmony, and to the developing tempo and demands of a full season in terms of rotation and protecting players, you more or less endorse what he does. You do, don't you?

(In my opinion he shows great consistency in all the areas just mentioned.)

Burnwinter

Captain wrote:
Can only assume that wiki entry is out of date. Kroenke would have been obliged once he passed 30% but that's long gone now.

Yes, I think it is out of date, but in addition to the 30% trigger (which he acted on) I do recall something about there having to be a discussion of the remaining shareholders, or an offer at market value after Kroenke had become majority owner and the dust had settled. I think it was supposed to come into action last summer.

Captain

My endorsement comes from my belief that Wenger did the best job he could given the resources he had. Some agree, some don't but we have a full forum to go over those differences and I'm not dragging yet another topic down that tiresome route.

I don't agree that anyone should interfere with the manager on the football side of things, whether that's tactics, squad composition or whatever. The manager should have someone to help grease palms and set things in motion during the season while he is concentrating on more important things. We haven't really had that since Dein left, but I think there are some signs that Gazidis is networking and planting seeds.

Note that I use 'the manager' because this goes further than Wenger. I don't agree with interference in the playing side from above that position.

Captain

Burnwinter wrote:
Captain wrote:
Can only assume that wiki entry is out of date. Kroenke would have been obliged once he passed 30% but that's long gone now.

Yes, I think it is out of date, but in addition to the 30% trigger (which he acted on) I do recall something about there having to be a discussion of the remaining shareholders, or an offer at market value after Kroenke had become majority owner and the dust had settled. I think it was supposed to come into action last summer.

I'm not sure about that.

These are the guidelines if you want to waste some time later.

http://www.thetakeoverpanel.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/code.pdf

Burnwinter

Ta - I'll check that out actually.

Regarding the other point, I don't think we need to cover every base, but I think it was a perfectly fair claim that you endorse Wenger's "approach" ... once it was established that the scare quotes didn't mean some Biglosian distortion.

Biggus

Cannon wrote:
He is just toeing the line cause he knows how much the club hierarchy and fans are behind Wenger. And how deeply unpopular any hostile move to takeover club or discredit AW would prove to be.

Thats not true thought is it, I despise Wenger he only cares about profits he's sabotaged the team and he's a disgrace as a manager- I can't wait till he's out of my club and many fans think the same way.

CitizenNo9

Cannon wrote:
Thats not how it works. Stan will HAVE to make him an offer sooner or later. Its the rules. And that could work out to be a very expensive affair for Stan..

That isn't how it works, Stan is not obliged to make any offer.

there are only 2 levels to watch regarding mandatory offers/compulsory acquisitions and they differ in the nature of obligations

30%: @ this level a mandatory offer is required, it may or may not be accepted. Not much need be said about this.

90%: This is the compulsory acquisition of minority shares threshold where a majority shareholder having reached this level can forcefully acquire the remaining shares whether or not minority shareholders wish to sell. This was what happened at Manu. However for Stan to be able to trigger this he must first acquire shares from Uzi i.e with his consent. You see where I am going? We are at a stalemate, any change that happens in future will be with mutual consent of Stan and Uzi.

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