We fucking win the Prize™ 2013-14: Page 139 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

We fucking win the Prize™ 2013-14

JazzG

If we hadn't led for as long as we did I might have agreed with you!

No doubt we've made progress which has somewhat been cut short due to injuries but still not good enough. Transfer windows have been disappointing (apart from Ozil) considering how key positions not addressed and injury/training situation still not addressed. Plenty of room for progress!

Patters

I don't normally judge seasons in the discrete 'trophy or not' way that some fans do, but I think after the way everyone has been on the club's back (probably rightly) for not winning a trophy, it would be very inconsistent to dismiss this season as one where there has been no positive change.

Realistically I see very slight progress and I don't think the players should be particularly happy with the season, but I hope that if they close out the FA Cup they have a change in mentality; they become hungry and more determined to have a great career. That's even more important given that some of these 22-25 year old players have the capacity to become world class players. Liverpool are (were?) showing how infectious ambition and a bullish attitude is.

Burnwinter

@Otf Don't listen to what he says, look at what he does—he resolutely assembles a third or fourth place squad year in year out.

The consistency with which he achieves that target says it all, he obviously understands what's needed to get that far, and therefore it's hard to doubt he knows what would be needed to go further.

Wenger's the one with the attitude issues …

innervisionscm

I think judging this season depends on what Wenger does this summer. If he buys a couple perfect players for our system, then I'll be okay with him not desperately trying to strengthen in January - he wanted to get world-class players, and he eventually did. +6 points from last year and an FA Cup despite serious injury problems would be progress. But if the summer isn't good enough, it's going to feel like Wenger is wasting the considerable potential in the core of this squad.

goon

Burnwinter™ wrote:
@Otf Don't listen to what he says, look at what he does—he resolutely assembles a third or fourth place squad year in year out.

The consistency with which he achieves that target says it all, he obviously understands what's needed to get that far, and therefore it's hard to doubt he knows what would be needed to go further.

Wenger's the one with the attitude issues …

Well, he's won 3 league titles and 4 FA Cups playing some of the best football in Europe and pushed for a hugely ambitious move to a new stadium to ensure we remain one of the biggest clubs around for years to come and revolutionised the club in general when he joined. Doesn't exactly paint a character of someone who's content with the bare minumum.

I find it very difficult to beleive that he's content with finishing 4th for the rest of his career. Do you believe otherwise?

Wenger is a victim of his own stubborness and optimism and perhaps he's willing to be more patient than us fans but I don't for a second believe he sat in his office last summer dreaming of how to finish in the top 4 again.

DiabyKungFu

He just spent €50m to get Real Madrid's #10 less than a year ago...

Questioning his ability is one thing but questioning his intent is the peak of absurdity.

Dillinger

otfgoon wrote:
Burnwinter™ wrote:
How can a relatively strong supporter of Wenger such as yourself, Jazz, seriously question any attitude that settles for fourth place?

Seems untenable to me.

Wenger has said on a few occasions this season (and last) that 4th isn't good enough, nor is it the target.

I dunno about that. This whole 4th thing ... which could also include 3rd ... it's really a CL qualification thing. It is all too coincidental. Wenger is far too consistent. I really believe that the board ask Wenger to bring CL place without too much spending and he does so every season. He is incredibly successful at it.

I really DO think that is what his mind is concentrated on. He sees the fans as a bit of a nuisance ... and he is right ... how could we have DOUBTED his ability to finish 4th? We DID. We should have known.

There is a lot of money to be made from CL qualification through minimum spend. One day the board will sell up ... Arsenal PLC, Arsenal FC, a huge stadium and CL qualification assured .... any takers? ... hell yeah. It is PRIME real estate.

This is the reality. YES once he won things ... but come on ... it's nearly 10 years. We have not got FA Cup yet. No doubt we will, but it is more of a fluke that all the good teams went before we went crap. Look at the way we won some of those games.

Finances are Wengers main concern. Oziul was a banana, probably just needed to make sure of 4th. man U fecking up really helped or else ... who knows either way.

No mate ... we will nener see a PL title again while we have Wenger.

Great history, give him a salute, a cigar, a hand shake and a bottle of Champers. BUT. Time to go.

Unless you are happy with fulfilling the groundhog season. For a while I guess we all were. Now though ... it's enough. I want to win things, I want to beat Chelsea. I want to see us really play a great game. Arsenal do not play a great game anymore. Wenger has no idea how to do that anymore. He DID. But not now.

4th in 2015 is already assured. Wenger is going nowhere. I just wish that he was.

Rex

Hull game was pretty great.

goon

If it's the board then what difference does it make whether Wenger stays or goes?

But yeah, massive fluke winning the FA Cup by beating 3 out of the 5 teams we could face from the top 6 in the league, including the guys at the very top.

Dillinger

Before we went crap.

But it doesn't matter anyway ... Wenger stays ... I may as well get used to it.

I just miss winning titles ...

Burnwinter

otfgoon wrote:
I find it very difficult to beleive that he's content with finishing 4th for the rest of his career. Do you believe otherwise?

I certainly believe he had absolutely no genuine expectation of better than third or fourth when this season started. And all the evidence bears that out.

Then when an improbable achievement did drift into the realm of possibility he didn't act.

We hear now he's got £100m of authorised spending, but who believes he'll get near it? And who believes we'll win the title next season with Wenger running our summer transfers?

Again and again we see the actions of a man with a carefully calibrated and moderated will to win.

He may not be content with what he's achieving, but how he feels is irrelevant, it's all about what he does.

Burnwinter

Diaby KungFu wrote:
Questioning his ability is one thing but questioning his intent is the peak of absurdity.

No. I can understand rejecting doubts about the target he sets us—though as you gather, I disagree—but rejecting doubt itself is fanaticism, especially after nine long seasons of falling short with money left in the vault.

ludovicvanzis

If we win the FA cup it will be because for the last 2 years we've been taking it seriously.

Hard to say if the transition to the new stadium could have been done better ,but it does seem like trophies not being a must was the wrong attitude to have. In any case, all that is over now.

Dillinger

We are all boring each other to tears again. We all know what we think, we know our positions that seem to change but always go back to default ... no point in discussing it. The results speak louder than any of us ...

We just go round in circles.

goon

Burnwinter™ wrote:
He may not be content with what he's achieving, but how he feels is irrelevant, it's all about what he does.

In the context of whether he should stay or go sure. I'm strictly talking about ambitions though.

I agree with you to an extent, he's clearly not got that win at all costs mentality (or even close) and perhaps that's the root of all his little flaws. But I do think it's his ultimate aim.

DiabyKungFu

There is a gigantic distinction between expecting to finish 3rd/4th and trying to finish 3rd/4th. These people that think Wenger goes home when the season ends and feverishly works at trying to find ways to not finish 1st really need to seek help.

Edit:
This is an example of a reasonable opinion:

otfgoon wrote:
I agree with you to an extent, he's clearly not got that win at all costs mentality (or even close) and perhaps that's the root of all his little flaws. But I do think it's his ultimate aim.

Burnwinter

Of course he doesn't try to finish third or fourth, and that's far from what I'm saying.

He sets a high value on ulterior achievements—for example, continued compliance with FFP in two or three seasons—that despite their importance run against the grain of immediate success.

Gunner89

If we were taking things seriously we wouldn't have started with Giroud for the last 2 years.

We had a piss easy fixture list but by the end of December when the tough ones started coming we started to fizzle out.

ludovicvanzis

We played the exact same teams in the second half of the season as we did in the first :o

Gunner89

ludovic van zis wrote:
We played the exact same teams in the second half of the season as we did in the first :o

If you'd actually bothered to read instead of thinking up sarcastic replies you'd have seen that I mentioned end of December because we hadn't faced either City or Chelsea until then from even our first round of fixtures.

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