I don't care which team you support, I don't care how much it pains you, the day I salute Alex Ferguson I'll be blowing my brains out with the gun in my other hand.
Fuck him.
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Is it not possible to assess him with your Arsenal hat off? Or do you think he is repulsive to all neutrals?
I don't think it's possible. Definitely a hate figure for me.
I've always felt one should be able to divorce themselves from their clubs/experiences when evaluating footballers, teams and managers. For example, I hate Spurs, but I think Modric and vd Vaart are rather good players, and wouldn't mind either at our team (although I do think we are generally covered for that type of player). As much as Ferguson has insulted us and humbled our team over the years, I do think it's hard to ignore his brilliance. He just keeps winning trophy after trophy with different players and with different styles. The track record is hard to ignore
In life one is required to be objective about a multitude of things. Football's not one of them.
Nevertheless, I can say with absolute objectivity: Alex Ferguson is a horrible old man and I hate him.
Lol. Life would've been better without him these past few years. Maybe a title defense or three-peat from Wenger would've seen Ferguson resigned to the scrap heap at some point.
Can't wait until he retires and/or dies, I suppose you could count that as a back-handed compliment 
Each time he wins, I think he'll retire, but he keeps finding some new target. If he wins this year's Champions League, maybe he will want to stick around to beat Liverpool's European trophy haul. Bloody Fungus.
Imo, looking at the squad Chelsea have had for the last 5 years it's ridiculous that they've only won 1 league title in that time and never won the CL. It's taken severe board level/Abramovich mis-management season after season to stop them winning more.
Caligula wrote:I was just thinking. 12 Premier League titles in 19 years. That's just pure dominance. In a league where rich owners and great managers have been coming and going, Ferguson has just owned his adversaries. What he has gotten out of his team this season has been extraodinary. Nobody would claim they had better players than us overall, but they had a better balance of skills, size and experience/youth and that helped carry them to the title and a CL final.
Or you could just say that he is a cheque-book manager who has bought every trophy that he has ever won.
And yes, most people will/would have told you that ManU have better players than us overall.
I used to hate the man and I hate to say this but now I have nothing but respect for his achievements, he is everything Wenger isn't. I hate manu as an institution and can't stand their fans but some achievements transcend rivalries, he's the greatest manager in my lifetime bar none!
Having said that, I hope he gets ebola or something!
Captain wrote:Or you could just say that he is a cheque-book manager who has bought every trophy that he has ever won.
This is what I tend to think. Also gets a massive helping hand from the media, the FA and the general footballing climate. But never mind let's all salute, genuflect, fellate, respect or bow down to/before his genius.
Burnwinter wrote:I don't care which team you support, I don't care how much it pains you, the day I salute Alex Ferguson I'll be blowing my brains out with the gun in my other hand.
Fuck him.
I have to say i agree with you Burnsy, and yet remember when Chelsea took the title in 05 or 06 they had yet to play Utd, Fergi made his team give a guard of honour and applaud them- Not as a sign of sportsmanship or respect but to ram home to his players how it felt so they wouldn't want to repeat it.
Could you imagine Wenger doing something similar.
No, which is a shame, but in Ferguson's case as you say it's yet more proof that he's an ornery tyrant with a massive joist up his posterior.
I don't think anyone can rightly say he bought this year's title or their last, we were all writing them off and speaking of their demise, aged players, average players and lack of funds due to the parasitic Glazers. As far as the other stuff, well it just shows that He understands that top level football is fought both on and pyschologically off the field, something our purist in his little cocoon still fails to realise! Yes the competition were crap this season but this title was won by the manager, not money or the players. We have better players but a crap manager.
it's one thing to deny it in public or among rivals especially manu fans but it's another to deny it to one's self or among fellow arsenal fans!
They started the season second favourites, odds being only just longer than Chelsea; both around 2/1 with Arsenal being 7/1.
If we have better players it's because of the manager.
It doesn't stop there, being a talent scout is only half the job!
Lagos wrote:I don't think anyone can rightly say he bought this year's title or their last, we were all writing them off and speaking of their demise, aged players, average players and lack of funds due to the parasitic Glazers. As far as the other stuff, well it just shows that He understands that top level football is fought both on and pyschologically off the field, something our purist in his little cocoon still fails to realise! Yes the competition were crap this season but this title was won by the manager, not money or the players. We have better players but a crap manager.
it's one thing to deny it in public or among rivals especially manu fans but it's another to deny it to one's self or among fellow arsenal fans!
Of course I completely agree Lagos, It's obvious Ferguson is a much better manager the record speaks for itself........
But he's still an obnoxious falsely modest pig- the Great Satan and I'll never respect him.
Seem to be a few things being conflated here. Wenger's and Ferguson's careers cannot be weighed as the same currency.
Still don't rate his latest success. Its more down to us gifting it to them then their brilliance or them being the best team this seaon.
Tony, I am not praising them. Just telling you they were the best team last season.
Yes they can Burnsy.
When Ferguson took over Utd in 1986 they were far from successful or massive spenders, they hadn't won the league since 1967, winning the FA cup in 1990 saved him from the sack and it took him 7 years to finally do it.
Utd really became bigger spenders when their success enabled it.
When the records are written you don't see an asterisk beside some titles saying Won spending a minimal amount of money.
And of course as I'm sick of pointing out- any supposed disadvantage that Wenger is at as regards transfer funds is totally self imposed.
If Wenger wants to play by his own weird rules thats fine- but the rest of the world doesn't and thats who he'll be judged against.
Lagos wrote:It doesn't stop there, being a talent scout is only half the job!
No it doesn't, but any manager who can build a squad that is comparable to Alex Ferguson's on a fraction of his budget is plainly not crap.
that's like praising Chamakh for his link play and ignoring his inability to shoot and score goals. I can't do my main job well but hey I have this great party trick!
In other news: Pele says Hernandez is the next Messi. I guess that means it's all downhill from here!
Lagos wrote:that's like praising Chamakh for his link play and ignoring his inability to shoot and score goals. I can't do my main job well but hey I have this great party trick!
No, it's like saying that even though Chamakh might not be able to score as many goals as Messi, he shouldn't necessarily give up football.
no one is saying he should, just that He and Wenger should go ply their trade elsewhere as both are not up to the level we are as a club!
Biggus wrote:Yes they can Burnsy.
When Ferguson took over Utd in 1986 they were far from successful or massive spenders, they hadn't won the league since 1967, winning the FA cup in 1990 saved him from the sack and it took him 7 years to finally do it.
Utd really became bigger spenders when their success enabled it.
They started splashing cash in 1987 and they continued to splash the cash right up until they won the league in '93 and beyond.
Biggus, one can compare aspects of the performance of each - such as their respective ability to get players to play beyond their apparent limitations - with reasonable fairness, but not the whole of their careers.
Wenger's spending restrictions are not "totally" self-imposed. That is simply bullshit. United have had vastly more revenue than us for the majority of the time Wenger and Ferguson have managed in parallel, and Ferguson has not been under pressure to save.
If these absolutes were reasonable you could slam any manager in England for not earning his club promotion to the PL and winning the title. Including League One, League Two, the conference etc.
That said, I do think Ferguson has outperformed Wenger because I look at the wage table and see that he has won quite a few titles from second spot on the wage ladder, which is the most strongly correlated factor when it comes to league performance. This is particularly true in recent years.
And finally, I'm not really interested in discussing this objectively, I dislike, disrespect and despise Ferguson and everything he has "achieved" is as dust to me.
You can't ignore the transfer fees in favour of wages. High wages are the price we pay to keep players once they are good enough; development time to get them to that stage is paid for with points.
This seems to be the latest craze:
"Genius Fergie would have won title with any of the top four" according to Steve Bruce :hmm:
Hansen started it on MOTD 2.
Nonsense.
Ferguson knows his current squad inside out.
He's worked with many of the core players season after season.
They are his chosen chosen group.
He does not have that familiarity and relationship with any other set of players.
The idea that he would just waltz into any team in the top four and resolve all issues whilst turning them into league winners within a season is stretching this idea that he's some kind of Midas way too far.
Balotelli's in the news. Again.
Balotelli 'takes truant boy back to school and gives bullies ticking off'
The youngster was hanging around outside City's Carrington training ground and asked the maverick striker for his autograph, but Balotelli was more interested in why the little scamp was wagging school.
After the child told him he was being bullied, Balotelli immediately drove the boy and his mother to the school in question to give the bully a ticking off.
The Italian international then demanded to see the headmaster to make him aware of the issue, and even mediated as the two boys were sat down to resolve their differences.
Robocop!
Balotelli is
The Most Interesting Man in the World
At the bottom of that article:
Last month, it was reported that the 20-year-old celebrated a £25,000 casino win in Manchester by giving £1,000 to a local homeless man.
I hope he stays in this league for several years to come. Superb entertainment value.
Burnwinter wrote:Wenger's spending restrictions are not "totally" self-imposed. That is simply bullshit. United have had vastly more revenue than us for the majority of the time Wenger and Ferguson have managed in parallel, and Ferguson has not been under pressure to save.
Untrue mate, there are plenty of quotes from PHW Gazidis & Wenger about the money being there, to claim we're poor is a insult to our intelligence and to the ticket buying supporters- nobody believes that anymore, and of course Wenger has said and shown himself that he simply refuses to invest in established players anymore.
This wasn't always the case as you know, he has bought established players in the past, some worked some didn't but no one can deny this was the most successful part of his reign here.
It's true that the two clubs administration is organised differently and indeed Man Utds ability to spend has even been curtailed recently, but there is a direct correlation between their success on the pitch which has been achieved largely through Ferguson, which has led to massive commercial success worldwide.
Burnwinter wrote:And finally, I'm not really interested in discussing this objectively, I dislike, disrespect and despise Ferguson and everything he has "achieved" is as dust to me.
Of course, I'm condemning Wenger not praising Ferguson.
He could and should have stopped him reaching this record.
The fault dear Burnsus, lies not in our stars but in ourselves. 
On a side note.
We could have had Fergi.
Just something i noticed watching the Utd-Chelsea game at the weekend; Essien looks shot. Seems to have lost all the explosion from his game.
It's strange that he related that story months ago and now it is the top story on newsnow. Typical press trying to generate a reaction.
Biggus wrote:Burnwinter wrote:Wenger's spending restrictions are not "totally" self-imposed. That is simply bullshit. United have had vastly more revenue than us for the majority of the time Wenger and Ferguson have managed in parallel, and Ferguson has not been under pressure to save.
Untrue mate, there are plenty of quotes from PHW Gazidis & Wenger about the money being there, to claim we're poor is a insult to our intelligence and to the ticket buying supporters- nobody believes that anymore, and of course Wenger has said and shown himself that he simply refuses to invest in established players anymore.
We are not poor, and I didn't claim any such thing.
What I said was that Wenger has not had the freedom to spend that Ferguson has had.
Even now with our (only now so large) cash reserves our nett transfer spend has been around 150m less than United since '92 - or more - and our wages have always been lower as far as I know. They spend more because they have more, and they're set to spend more and have more in the summer.
Thank God for the Glazers' leveraged buyout because their basic revenue position is far ahead of ours.
So do me a favour and argue with what I say and not the bleedin' obviously wrong
Biggus wrote:This wasn't always the case as you know, he has bought established players in the past, some worked some didn't but no one can deny this was the most successful part of his reign here.
Out of interest, who? The likes of Vieira, Henry, Petit, Pires, Lauren etc weren't anymore established than Vermaelen, Sagna, Arshavin, Rosicky, Chamakh and so on.