Walcott would be ridiculed in Juve. He doesn't have the workrate to play for them. I think Podolski does when he's not struggling with his ankle though. Vucinic is a better player than both of them but the forward line have been their weak area for a while. That's why they've signed Llorente. That's essentially the difference though: They're a player or two away from being genuine contenders for Champions League. We're an injury or two away from being Everton. For someone in Italy there's no difference between them and us unless we qualify for Champions League.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Vucinic is a very gifted footballer, but soft as shite-not a goal scorer, not a play maker. He's been hopeless every time I've watched Juve play, but occasionally redeems himself with a nice goal or bit of skill. He's someone I used to really like actually, but he's never kicked on. And even if they solve their striking issues they're gonna have an even bigger problem soon, cos Pirlo ain't got much left in the tank, not at CL knockout level.

At the highest level they're an above average team and we're somewhere around average, but in a knockout tie the ability English teams have to sometimes find that extra gear and tempo evens things up slightly imo.

I think Pirlo has 3-4 years left at least in his current role, but Juve have earmarked Asamoah as his heir. The only reason people aren't talking about him is because they've bought him already. It's interesting how much people tend to make of the higher English tempo, and how very little it has actually accounted for in reality. United got knocked out in the quarter this season. Arsenal in the first round. Chelsea and City didn't even make it out of the group.

Klaus wrote:

Players who recently went 1½ season unbeaten

Yeah, in the fourth best league in Europe ... :hmm:

It's still a rare achievement which deserves a lot more respect than finishing 4th on the final day of Premier League for the 6th time.

Look, I'm not going to keep argue how superior Juve are because that club makes me sick to my stomach. But they are a - much - better team than we are. That is impossible to object to unless you've lived under a rock for the last few years. For someone who not only lives in Italy but have a connection to Italian culture the choice is an abslute no-brainer. It's like getting a chance to play for Bayern when you're German.

Sorry, I'm honestly just winding you up now (I admitted as much earlier).

it's news to me that we beat bayern in a game that didn't matter.

English teams higher tempo and greater physicality has often made a huge difference in Europe. I didn't say or imply that it is the determining factor in every single game and in every single season. For this year you'd have to look at each individual team to identify the reason they failed. But Liverpool got to two CL finals, winning one, based basically on a sound defence away and a crazy high tempo at home.

And we'll see on Pirlo. Most of the CL games I saw Juve play (which was 6) this season he was pretty anonymous. In fact, he was downright poor in a few of them. Can see him being very effective for a while yet domestically, but dominating a game at CL level against other top teams? Not sure i see it.

Timothy wrote:

English teams higher tempo and greater physicality has often made a huge difference in Europe. I didn't say or imply that it is the determining factor in every single game and in every single season. For this year you'd have to look at each individual team to identify the reason they failed. But Liverpool got to two CL finals, winning one, based basically on a sound defence away and a crazy high tempo at home.

And at the other end of the spectrum, Milan, who season by season probably had the slowest and oldest team in Europe this past decade bar the odd player, made three CL finals and won two of them. Their philosophy was also grounded in a strong defensive presence which minimises the space that a team with a higher tempo will be able to exploit. I didn't say that tempo can't be an advantage for the record. It's just that there will always be sound tactics to counter it. That's another thing Juve have that we don't, by the way.

The Milan team that got to three CL finals was full of exceptional footballers, in some cases the best of all time. And they were old, but they had pace and athleticism in key areas.

Liverpool was full of shit footballers, and they weren't even that athletic, Gerrard aside.

I agree that this Juve team would deal with a high tempo game better than certain other Italian teams of recent vintage. My views are that they are a good team, well set up and drilled. I think that while they have a lot of individual class they lack match winners and they are weak in a few key positions. Definitely far from a complete team.

Anyway, as I said earlier, we'll have to agree to disagree on Juve for now.

Mostly watch Juve in europe and on highlight shows and I would fancy us to knock them out of the champions league most years. They would beat us over the course of a season.

Juve may have won serie A, but they are a very average team ATM. I would bet on Arsenal beating them every fucking time as of today. Hell on a good day even Swansea might do them. Milan may have won some cups these past few years but that league is shit and will remain shit till they sort out the mess that is Italy. TBH its a pity but that's how it is.

Riiiiiight.

Tim makes some fair points but Juve are still a level above us no question. Their strike force is weak as piss but they know it and they're doing something about it and if Llorente + whoever click then they'll be up there with the best in Europe. We don't come close to matching their defence or midfield in terms of starting team or squad depth.

Juve are exactly what I was talking about in another thread. They're a really good team without having star players. They all work well together.

otfgoon wrote:

Juve are exactly what I was talking about in another thread. They're a really good team without having star players. They all work well together.

Pirlo? Buffon?

Those two will go down as the best players of their generation.

Of course. Meant they're not a team full of stars rather than they have no stars. Take the top two teams from each of the best 5 leagues in Europe and I'd imagine they'd be near the bottom of the list a far as star quality goes.

Which is why they underwhelmed in the CL. Still better than us, mind.

I wish we thrash them in CL coming season. Something we can comfortably do if we come across them.