The Film Thread: Page 392 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Film Thread

USArsenal

Big Willie wrote:
Just watched Untouchables for the first time. Have to say, I wasn't impressed.

Untouchables, as in Kevin Costner & Sean Connery? or do you mean Intouchables (French movie with Omar Sy) ?

Big Willie

Kevin Costner, Sean Connery and Robert De Niro.

It's supposedly a classic but found a lot of the dialogue pretty cheesy and contrived. I was especially disappointed in De Niro's portrayal of Capone.

QuincyAbeyie

Upgrade was pretty cool. Very impressive what they've done with such a tiny budget.

USArsenal

Big Willie wrote:
Kevin Costner, Sean Connery and Robert De Niro.

It's supposedly a classic but found a lot of the dialogue pretty cheesy and contrived. I was especially disappointed in De Niro's portrayal of Capone.

wow.. alrighty then.. i don't think i could disagree more. but hey, diff'rent strokes and all that.. lol

Big Willie

USArsenal wrote:
Big Willie wrote:
Kevin Costner, Sean Connery and Robert De Niro.

It's supposedly a classic but found a lot of the dialogue pretty cheesy and contrived. I was especially disappointed in De Niro's portrayal of Capone.

wow.. alrighty then.. i don't think i could disagree more. but hey, diff'rent strokes and all that.. lol

Kept telling my partner that this is a classic and we should watch it. I was honestly surprised how much I disliked it. Maybe I'd need to give it a second watch, I dunno.

Klaus

I sort of liked The Untouchables, but it's basically a slapstick film where they didn't let Kevin Costner and Robert de Niro in on the joke. You're not going to find any deeper meaning in it Willie. Just watch it with a beer and relax.

Big Willie

I think you nailed it Klaus. I guess I was expecting it to be a serious film. Like a suspense or thriller based on the casting and the subject. Those action scenes where Costner ends up sliding under a moving car, the overly exaggerated scene where Capone's guys break in to Connery's house, that final baby scene.

I was confused whether I should be laughing or not. Even the acting seemed very exaggerated, a bit stage-show-esque.

Probably just had the wrong expectations of the film I was watching based on my on preconceptions of the story and the cast. Might have been a decent watch if I was expecting to watch a comedy.

Daz

I think it was a good mainstream action/gangster film when it was released. But it lacks any real depth and the acting is average, so it hasn't aged particularly well either.

Burnwinter

Crime films often don't date that well, especially period pieces.

But I re-watched The Departed the other day and it's showing a bit of wear and tear, for sure. The performances are just a bit leaden (and yes I know Infernal Affairs is better).

Makes films like Heat and Thief more impressive in my opinion. Michael Mann has a great eye.

Klaus

Burnwinter wrote:
Crime films often don't date that well, especially period pieces.

I agree, and I'd take it one step further: I don't think typical 'guy movies' (arbitrary as that definition is) tend to age very well on the whole. Pulp Fiction, The Untouchables, Goodfellas, Scarface, Fight Club, True Romance, The Magnificent Seven, Raging Bull, Blade Runner, Taxi Driver... it's like one long definition of hideous taste in movies.

I've probably offended someone in here now, but I've been forced to rewatch a good chunk of them - and films like them - over the past year or so, and they're just not good anymore, if they indeed ever were good for anything more than cheap thrills and shallow reflections. Nothing wrong with cheap trills and a few simple notes for what it's worth, but the way these films tend to creep in on lists over the best films of the last couple of decades is what creates the sort of confusion Big Willie felt, I'm sure of it. They're dozen films that you'd rent three at a time to get a discount back when there still were video stores.

Burnwinter

Well you've picked out quite a few films there I think are overrated, Klaus.

I think Scarface is worth dusting off every now and then because De Palma was actually doing something with it in terms of excess, exile, difference and violence, talking about America. With the exception of Blade Runner, which your opinion about is silly even though I don't think it's the greatest film of all time, the rest of that list leaves me a bit cold.

Scorsese just isn't that amazing. Watching The Departed I was really struck by how inferior Leo DiCaprio's performance as Billy Costigan is to Tony Leung's in Infernal Affairs. You don't have at all the same sense of anxiety. The film is full of flat shots and flat performances. The fact I dislike Matt Damon doesn't help much either, but you've got to blame Scorsese for his dreary, liberal east coast chauvinist vision of America.

I disagree with your "guy movie" thesis though, as I think there's huge numbers of guy-centric, guy-focused films that are fucking great. It's more that the critical system surrounding the film economy that makes people (usually men) claim that films (usually guy films) that are not that great are masterpieces is a bit fucked.

I think I've mentioned the All Units "anatomy of a thriller" podcast here before, but the picks Sean McTiernan comes up with on that tend to be terrific.

I've been working my way through some of these, and I'd go into bat for most of the ones I've seen:

https://letterboxd.com/murdermurder/list/all-units/

Jens

I think Taxi Driver is out of place on your list there Klaus. De Niro although a great actor is guilty of some of the accusations in your post, but this is his best role (along with King of Comedy) and not a film that goes for cheap trills at all.

Apart from that the only movies I’d be bothered to stand up for would be Goodfellas and Pulp. Both heavily flawed, but infinitely rewatchable.

I would be curious Klaus what you would consider a great ‘guy’ movie.

jones

I can see Klaus' point, many of those films I was a big fan of in my teenage years while they give me very little nowadays.

Not hearing any bad word about Raging Bull though, haven't watched that one in a while and I'm still confident saying that it's on a completely different level to the rest. I'll concede that the film probably doesn't do nearly as much for you if you don't know Jake LaMotta but from the perspective of a boxing fan that is an insanely well made film. I think I remember reading that the boxing scenes which make up just a small fraction of the film took more weeks to shoot than the rest of the film.

There's also the fact that the storyline sticks very closely to LaMotta's memoirs (which is a captivating read by the way) which Scorsese deserves a lot of credit for. Its also Pescis best film I think but De Niro outshines everything in it, despite all the garbage he starred in afterwards he's an all time great for this film alone, he trained with LaMotta for a couple years almost every day to the point that LaMotta said he could become a real professional middleweight, only to gain like 60 pounds in two months for the end of the film. Seriously I can see how people might not be interested in all this but if you can muster up even a shred of interest for boxing you should rewatch it Klaus.

goon

I’ve been wanting to re-watch Pulp Fiction for a while because it’s been ages since I last watched it, probably not since my early 20’s or maybe even late teens, but I loved it back then. Maybe I should leave it be.

Completely agree with Burns on The Departed, though I felt like that after the first watch never mind the second. I’m a big fan of Di Caprio but his performance along with the others, and the move as a whole left me feeling empty at the end. It wasn’t terrible by any means, just average.

Sicario

USArsenal wrote:
Big Willie wrote:
Just watched Untouchables for the first time. Have to say, I wasn't impressed.

Untouchables, as in Kevin Costner & Sean Connery? or do you mean Intouchables (French movie with Omar Sy) ?

Intouchables is a great film.

Klaus, Scarfsce is a classic and it’s one of Pacino’s most charismatic performances of all time. I don’t tend to watch classics multiple times, however, Scarface is an exception.

USArsenal

Sicario wrote:
USArsenal wrote:
Untouchables, as in Kevin Costner & Sean Connery? or do you mean Intouchables (French movie with Omar Sy) ?

Intouchables is a great film.

Klaus, Scarfsce is a classic and it’s one of Pacino’s most charismatic performances of all time. I don’t tend to watch classics multiple times, however, Scarface is an exception.

i thought Intouchables was great as well. Unfortunately, they are remaking it "American Style" with Bryan Cranston & Kevin Hart.. I can see that flopping even though I like Cranston (not a huge fan of Hart).

USArsenal

I think watching a lot of these "guy-centric" movies (pardon the expression) when they originally came out or close to it skews a lot of views on the movies. Things like the Untouchables, I saw that decades ago, and it was a great watch at the time, so they tend to have a special place to me even if they werent the best or dont hold up as well over time. I can't think of a lot of movies that were considered classics that i didnt see til 10/15/20 years later that i thought were great.

Sicario

It’s funny but try watching these ‘guy movies’ 20 or 30 years after you first watched them and more often than not you will find it’s a different film.

Not sure how old most of you guys are but it’s a big difference watching scarface when you are 12 compared to when you are in your mid-30’s. You see things a lot different and you can relate to more things and have better understanding behind the meanings etc than when you were an innocent child.

Scarfsce for me was better 20 years later compared to when I first watched it.

USArsenal, regarding Intouchables, am sure the American version will suck (all due respect). You can’t replicate charm which is what the original had in bucket loads.

arsedocmd

What about LA confidential? I like it in the mold of Heat. Maybe it has to do somewhat with the fact that these movies didn't have hype when released unlike the others.

QuincyAbeyie

Klaus wrote:
Burnwinter wrote:
Crime films often don't date that well, especially period pieces.

I agree, and I'd take it one step further: I don't think typical 'guy movies' (arbitrary as that definition is) tend to age very well on the whole. Pulp Fiction, The Untouchables, Goodfellas, Scarface, Fight Club, True Romance, The Magnificent Seven, Raging Bull, Blade Runner, Taxi Driver... it's like one long definition of hideous taste in movies.

Do you mean that that you've got a hideous taste in movies if you just like some of those, or if you rate them as some of the best ever? It's a pretty big difference. Haven't seen most of those movies to be honest, but I think Pulp Fiction is pretty good.

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