Norwich City v/s Arsenal, Saturday 17:30.: Page 18 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Norwich City v/s Arsenal, Saturday 17:30.

kamikaze

SamDaGooner wrote:
Or wenger is just out of his depth when competing with the big teams, he could keep up with ferguson before but in the modern era of three or so big teams spending exaggerated amounts on quality players means wenger is out of business when it comes to winning major trophies

this is another bullshit excuse from the wenger apologists.

19, 22, 10, 18, 4, 21, 16. can you guess what this is? this the number of points we've finished behind united in the lge since our last trophy. so lets not pretend we'd still be competing for the league if not for the oil money of chelsea and man city. united has pulled away from us as well, and that's with much more debt (and useless debt at that) than us, so you can't use that excuse either.

ludovicvanzis

The whole landscape changed when Chelsea became a force.

kamikaze

read my post. we werent anywhere near united anyway. it's amazing what the power of denial is. people will just selectively ignore facts to preserve the reality they choose to believe.

in the real world, chelsea and man city could be in league two and we still wouldn't have won the league since 2005. in fact, we wouldnt have even been close, except for 07/08.

ludovicvanzis

It's not that simple.

kamikaze

yes, i'd imagine the mental gymnastics you have to complete are pretty complicated 😉

Qwiss

07/08 was a mirage as well. We were never going to win that title for all the same reasons we fell away in other seasons.

You can cite Chelsea and City or whatever else but there's always been other teams than United. What Kami is saying is true, we've failed because of own policies, not anyone elses. We've stood still while all of Europes top tier teams have moved forward.

ludovicvanzis

We were the big dogs in England until Abramovich came along. United were able to keep up with them (and actually out perform them) because they were in a far better position than us.

We definitely would have won the league in 05 and maybe even the CL. After that who knows what could have happened. Chelsea's emergence changed everything. You can't take them out and say everything would have been the same. It's clearly not the case. Maybe we'd have kept Cole, maybe some of their excellent players would have joined us instead. Who knows. But I'm almost 100% that we'd be better off without them and with a few more trophies to our name.

Ray

kamikaze wrote:
SamDaGooner wrote:
Or wenger is just out of his depth when competing with the big teams, he could keep up with ferguson before but in the modern era of three or so big teams spending exaggerated amounts on quality players means wenger is out of business when it comes to winning major trophies

this is another bullshit excuse from the wenger apologists.

19, 22, 10, 18, 4, 21, 16. can you guess what this is? this the number of points we've finished behind united in the lge since our last trophy. so lets not pretend we'd still be competing for the league if not for the oil money of chelsea and man city. united has pulled away from us as well, and that's with much more debt (and useless debt at that) than us, so you can't use that excuse either.

Im anything but a wenger apologist, if anything i want him out, my point was wenger is out of his depth because he doesn't want to spend more than 16m on a player (because in his mind its not pure) so no matter what happens we wont win a major trophy with wenger in charge. Even if we had someone like usmanov come in i doubt wenger would even spend the funds given to him.

So when it was just ferguson he was able to compete nowadays his transfer style is outdated.

Biggus

ludovic van zis wrote:
We definitely would have won the league in 05 and maybe even the CL.

Yeah definitely........

kamikaze

ludovic van zis wrote:
We were the big dogs in England until Abramovich came along. United were able to keep up with them (and actually out perform them) because they were in a far better position than us.

i thought we were the big dogs, how was united in a better position than us? esp considering they got saddled with far more debt (and bad debt at that) than us...

since 2005, we've been outperformed by united on the pitch, in the boardroom, and on the training ground. that's it - everything else is whiny excuse-making from deluded losers with a tenuous grasp of objective reality. our predicament is self-inflicted.

lorddulaarsenal

Self inflicted and apparently infinite

ludovicvanzis

Kamikaze you're the only one here that's whinging. Well, you and Biggus.

Foreign sugar daddies changed everything in english football. That's a fact.

I'm not making excuses, I'm merely accepting reality. The reality that we're outmuscled and outgunned and we're not in the best position as a club.

This crazy idea that we somehow could have conquered the likes of Chelsea if only we had a different manager, now that's deluded. Believing that a simple change of manager would solve everything is such a comforting thing to believe, isn't it.

Biggus

squallkid wrote:
Jeez it's all so post doomsday in here, we lost to Norwich, it wasn't a cup final.

Lucky it wasn't, we would still have lost.

ludovic van zis wrote:
Kamikaze you're the only one here that's whinging. Well, you and Biggus.

😆 Don't think so.
Anyway I'm way beyond whinging, I don't want Wenger to change things I don't want him to improve I just want him gone.

lorddulaarsenal

catching up with a mate from work this morning, he's not into football, but he told me he went out for a few beers with his mates in london on sat. said one of them was a gooner and that he was fuming over the Norwich game which led him to go on an almighty binge. anyways, he was struggling bigtime, fell down some stairs and lost his front teeth.

Rex

I bet he'll never forget the day we lost to Norwich under shambolic circumstances. 🙂

Biggus

Fuck me! we'd better put this in the crimes of Wenger file.

flobaba

Biggus wrote:
Fuck me! we'd better put this in the crimes of Wenger file.

Meh, lost teeth is nothing. Folks have been known to commit suicide in frustration/depression with Wenger's 'methods' in recent years.

kamikaze

ludovic van zis wrote:
Foreign sugar daddies changed everything in english football. That's a fact.

This crazy idea that we somehow could have conquered the likes of Chelsea if only we had a different manager, now that's deluded.

19, 22, 10, 18, 4, 21, 16

that is the reality you choose to ignore. i can agree that your first sentence quoted above is true. but what about the other big club that, like us, has no sugar daddy and is saddled with even more debt? how have they won 4 league titles, 1 european cup, 3 league cups, 4 community shields and 1 fifa club world cup since 2005, if it's impossible to compete against sugar daddies?

19, 22, 10, 18, 4, 21, 16... what will it be this year? your whining about sugar daddies can't explain that.

Tam

I'm not getting into making excuses Kami, but there is, always has been and always will be a vast difference between the resources available to us and those available to Man United in challenging the sugar daddy clubs. That's a fact you seem to be choosing to ignore. You can't pick and choose when it suits you.

kamikaze

i guess where our opinions diverge is that i don't believe there is any significant difference between our financial potential and united's.

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